Need 'Vow of Poverty' for Non-Exalted Characters!

[Roman]

I have broached this topic before, but now I have a specific question. A player in my campaign would like to begin a character that has foresworn material possessions, but is not an exalted character. How can I 'compensate' her character given the fact that she will not be eligible for the Vow of Poverty feat that is meant specifically for lawful good characters?

The possessions she will be allowed to have are: bedroll, tent, clothing, food, water (and waterskin), flint and steel to make fire, cooking implements, torches and sacks/backpack. That's it.

Also, in case her character rescinds in the future and begins gaining material possessions - should I let her keep the old abilities (whatever they will be) she has gained from foregoing them, since she will be so far behind others in terms of the wealth, or perhaps let her keep part (and if so how big a part) of her old abilities - or should I slam her with loosing them all?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Sejs]

Personally, the only thing I would give would be a circumstance bonus on Diplomacy checks with people who would respect them for their vow. It wouldn't take a feat, and there would be no penalty for breaking it. It's just a life decision the character has made. There shouldn't even need to be a list of what the character can and cannot have - the player just needs to remember that their character made that choice and to remain faithful to that as appropriate to the situation at hand.


If you want the wacky VoP super powers, you not only have to foreswear material possessions, you have to foreswear material possessions and be downright saintly, to boot.

 

[Roman]

Personally, the only thing I would give would be a circumstance bonus on Diplomacy checks with people who would respect them for their vow. It wouldn't take a feat, and there would be no penalty for breaking it. It's just a life decision the character has made. There shouldn't even need to be a list of what the character can and cannot have - the player just needs to remember that their character made that choice and to remain faithful to that as appropriate to the situation at hand.


If you want the wacky VoP super powers, you not only have to foreswear material possessions, you have to foreswear material possessions and be downright saintly, to boot.

I don't know... I agree that if you want VoP superpowers you have to be saintly on top of foreswearing material possessions, but surely merely giving up material possessions to such a degree would in itself merit some compensation in terms of granting the character some extra powers (though not as many as the VoP grants). Let's call it hyperfrugality for lack of a better word.

Re-reading my first post, I just realized that I omitted the level of the campaign. The character in question will begin play at level 10, so surely such a character without equipment would deserve some compensation.

 

[Matafuego]

I didn't know you had to be LG to take the Vow...
But since it's your campaign you may allow him/her to take the vow instead and come up for a reason a god would compensate him/her for not having possessions?

 

[Roman]

I didn't know you had to be LG to take the Vow...

Even being LG is not enough - you are supposed to be more than 'Good' - you have to be outright 'Exalted' to be able to take the Vow.

But since it's your campaign you may allow him/her to take the vow instead and come up for a reason a god would compensate him/her for not having possessions?

True, but there are two problems with this:

1) The 'Vow of Poverty' feat compensates not only for the lack of material possessions, but also for the extreme saintliness required. I simply need to compensate for the lack of material possessions only (well, some possessions are allowed - see above - but definitely no magic items, weapons or other non-basics).

2) The feat is designed with saintly/good characters in mind, so the powers it gives might not be entirely appropriate for a character of a different alignment.

 

[Chun-tzu]

You don't have to be Lawful Good to take an Exalted feat. The requirement is to be of good alignment and "the highest moral standards." So, a Chaotic Good character can legally take a Vow of Poverty just as readily as a Lawful Good character.

There is another Vow of Poverty feat in Monte's Book of Hallowed Might. BoHM introduces "Blessed" feats, which are similar to Exalted feats. Monte's Vow of Poverty is less powerful than the BoED version, but also less restricting. For example, a limited number of magic items are allowed. The only bonus, though, is a level-dependent skill bonus to a number of Charisma-based skills.

Edit - Also, good alignment is not required for Monte's version of the feat.

 

[brehobit]

My suggestion:
Remove the bonus feats and anything with "good" or "evil" in it. (like the ability to bypass "good" DR). Otherwise use VoP. Make them spend maybe only one feat rather than 2. If they break their Vow the lose the power, at least until they gain next level or do an atonement quest or something.

Power wise it should be balanced. The role-playing restrictions of "saintly" should be offset by the feat loss.

My 2 cents.

Mark

 

[Roman]

My suggestion:
Remove the bonus feats and anything with "good" or "evil" in it. (like the ability to bypass "good" DR). Otherwise use VoP. Make them spend maybe only one feat rather than 2. If they break their Vow the lose the power, at least until they gain next level or do an atonement quest or something.

Power wise it should be balanced. The role-playing restrictions of "saintly" should be offset by the feat loss.

My 2 cents.

Mark

Ok, thanks for the suggestion. I may actually use that. I am toying with being more lenient, though, and if she breaks the vow she looses only half the powers (basically, her level for the purposes of the poverty powers halves from the maximum level she attained before she broke the vow).

 

[angry monkey]

Or you could also have her lose something like one level of abilites per game that she doesn't follow the vow, and gain back one level of abilities per game that she follows the vow. I know this is straying from the original VoP pretty far, but it sounds like something you'd see in a cheesey martial arts movie, and may be fun to role play.

Also, you may want to ask this question on the DnDonline board, to see if I answer it there.

 

[Justinian]

In my campaign, I rewrote it as "Ascetic", and tied it to a strictly lawful alignment. It requires two feats, a prerequisite "Vow of Obedience" and the "Ascetic" feat. Ascetic grants all that VoP does in the way of abilities, although all of the good/evil is reset to law/chaos. It grants bonus feats at a much reduced rate from the VoP's exalted feats.

While none of the PCs have taken this (yet), I saw it as a possibility for some of the more lawful characters in the future, and wanted to have the option. My world has a strong monastic tradition in places, and the concept of an ascetic monk, especially, is helpful to have.

Breaking the vow would result in loss of abilities, and likely would require a specific lawful quest for atonement.