Negative levels and death

[Cheiromancer]

If a characters dies with one (or more) negative levels, what happens to them when he is raised? Do they go away automatically? Does he make the saves for level loss then? Or does he automatically fail any saves that should have happened while he was dead?

And does it make a difference if the negative levels were what killed him?

 

[Quickbeam]

I'm not sure I fully understand your questions, but I'll give answering them a go...

1) Ember (Monk6) is struck in a fight, fails her save, and suffers a level drain lowering her to 5th level. She dies several rounds later from additional wounds. If her party attempts to raise/resurrect Ember, I would treat her as a 5th level character at the time of raising/resurrection -- and deduct another level for this process placing her at 4th level.

2) Ember (Monk2) is struck in combat, fails her save and suffers a level drain placing her at 1st level. Being an unlucky low level PC facing a horrible array of undead, she is struck several more times and fails her saves, losing THREE more levels...and dies. I don't even see how this PC can viably be raised/resurrected in any useful or realistic manner.

As to saves for level drains that might be made while dead -- I'm totally lost . Characters are supposed to make such saves at the time they are struck, even if the physical HP damage from the draining blow kills the PC. That's my take anyhow.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Well, as I read it, a negative level gives you a -1 penalty to your skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws. Plus whenever you use your level in a die roll or calculation, you reduce it by one. Oh, and spellcasters lose one spell from the highest level they can cast.

Negative levels remain in place for 24 hours (unless otherwise removed). The negative level then goes away, but you have to make a Fortitude save to determine whether a level is lost or not. A separate saving throw for each negative level.

Let's see... yeah, PHB 280.

I was just wondering what the procedure is if the character dies before the 24 hours are up. If I had to make a ruling on the fly, I would have the saves be made when the character was raised.

Regards,

 

[UofMDude]

A character who is 6th level and receives a negative level is not 5th level - they are 6th level with one negative level effect on them.

As far as I am aware no temporary effects (ability damage, etc...) are "remembered" when a character dies. By the rules there is nothing to say that these effects are reinstated if a character is raised from the dead. That goes for negative levels also.

On a more metagame note, if a character goes through all the bother of dying you may as well let them get rid of the negative levels. Unless they got True Rezzed they're already screwed.

UofMDude

 

[the Jester]

I believe that generally when a character dies because of negative levels they rise as a wight or something, don't they?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Monte Cook has stated on his boards (sorry, don't have a link) that while it is not spelled out in the rules, their intention was that negative levels become lost levels if a character dies.

Essentially, since a dead character automatically fails saving throws, they automatically fail the Fort save to prevent the negative levels becoming permanent.

Example : A sixth level fighter gets hit twice by a wight, and is then killed by a wolf. If he is Raised or Resurrected, he comes back to life at 3rd level (2 negative levels becoming permanent, one level lost for the Raise.) If he is True Resurrected, he comes back at 4th.

However, Monte in the same thread conceded that that intention had not made it into the rulebooks, so DMs are free to rule it as they see fit.

-Hyp.

 

[GuardianLurker]

You've got a bunch of situations here :

1) Character loses some, but not, all of his levels, and dies from subsequent damage, and is then raised.
A: I'd personally rule this as -1 from the level just before death, or -N-1 levels from his original level. The character is not in danger of becoming undead in this case.

2) Character dies from level loss, but is resurrected before transformation to undead occurs.
A: IMC, that'd be 1st level, 0 eps. Alternatively, it doesn't raise the character, but does ensure that they don't become undead. Either way, remember that there's a ticking clock in this situation.

3)Character dies from level loss, is transformed into undead (either a wight [if from general level drain], or as some other form of undead [depending on the monster]), and has a "resurrection" spell cast within the spells time limit.
A: IMC, there's no difference between this and the next case, but a generous GM could allow this to be equivalent to the previous one instead.

4) Character dies from level loss, is transformed into undead, and is raised after the spell's time limit has expired.
A: See the MM.

 

[nsruf]

As far as I am aware no temporary effects (ability damage, etc...) are "remembered" when a character dies. By the rules there is nothing to say that these effects are reinstated if a character is raised from the dead. That goes for negative levels also.

On a more metagame note, if a character goes through all the bother of dying you may as well let them get rid of the negative levels. Unless they got True Rezzed they're already screwed.

But then, for a reasonably high level party, suicide is a viable cure for PCs with many negative levels, isn't it? I mean, better lose one level for sure than a lot of them with a certain probability.

While I agree that the negative levels themselves should be gone once a PC is raised, I would let him make the saves after he dies, to see how much of his life-force makes it into the afterlife.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But then, for a reasonably high level party, suicide is a viable cure for PCs with many negative levels, isn't it? I mean, better lose one level for sure than a lot of them with a certain probability.

Uh...

Kill me and cast a 9th level spell with a 5000gp component... instead of removing the negative levels with a 4th level spell and a 100gp component?

That's not my definition of "viable"

-Hyp.

 

[nsruf]

Kill me and cast a 9th level spell with a 5000gp component... instead of removing the negative levels with a 4th level spell and a 100gp component?

That's not my definition of "viable"

Know your spells, man - your life could depend upon it

From the SRD:

Raise Dead

Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
...snip...
Material Component: Worth at least 500 gp.

-----

Restoration

Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 4
Components: V, S, M

As lesser restoration, except the spell also dispels negative energy levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained.
...snip...
Material Component: Worth 100 gp.

-----

Greater Restoration

Necromancy
Components: V, S, XP
Level: Clr 7

As lesser restoration, except the spell dispels all negative energy levels afflicting the healed creature, restoring the creature to the highest level it had
previously achieved.
...snip...
XP Cost: 500 XP.

So yes, Restoration is cheaper (even than Raise Dead, which I was referring to with "lose one level for sure") but it removes only one negative level. So a 10th level wizard with 6 negative levels and an atrocious Fort save would be better off dead, unless the party cleric has memorized 6x Restoration. And Greater Restoration may be beyond the cleric's power or will at least cost him XP (of course, the raised PC loses even more XP but those cleric's are darn selfish).