nested extradimensional spaces items?

[silverwhisper]

i would try to search for this, but can't seem to find a search page, so my apologies beforehand if this is a long-dead subject.



in previous editions of the game, i would know how to adjudicate an instance of placing (for example) heward's handy haversack inside a bag of holding. i can't seem to locate any specific guidance from WOTC re: how to address this.

how would you guys handle this situation in 4e?

ed

 

[On Puget Sound]

What's to adjudicate? Heward's haversack (full or empty) fits easily inside a bag of holding. You could presumably fit 100 bags of holding (assuming a volume of 1 cubic foot per bag - the bag's volume is not specified; by weight 1000 bags could fit), each holding 200 lbs, inside a haversack. Ten tons of material, if it can be broken up into single-bag parts.

Of course if you are wealthy enough to do this, you shouldn't waste your time on the inefficient bags; put haversacks in haversacks (in haveracks, in haversacks)....

As I was going to St. Ives, I met a man with seven wives.
Each wife had seven sacks.
Each sack had seven cats.
Each cat had seven kits.
Kits, cats, sacks and wives,
how many were going to St. Ives?

 

[Piratecat]

Ed, I think it was a deliberate design choice that nested extradimensional objects in 4e no longer self-destruct. You can do that if you'd like, but by the rules there's no planar rip or sad, sad players.

 

[The_Fan]

I always hated the planar rip, and liked the version they used in the old Roguelike Castle of the Winds. They said that trying to nest extradimensional sacks was like trying to push two poles of a magnet together and they would resist until you inevitably gave up and they flew apart. No astral rift, just plain old "doesn't work."

 

[Saeviomagy]

Fundamentally the old rules existed because DMs hated players doing smart things to get around rules: in this case encumbrance rules. We can't have players actually leaving with their treasure, now, can we?

Currently I think (hope) that the thinking is that encumbrance isn't a fun rule, and so letting players circumvent it with relative ease is fine.

If you DO intend to make encumbrance a fun rule, then feel free to remove dimensional holding devices, or add back in the old dimension-within-a-dimension rules.

 

[Ryujin]

Given the limitation on how much magic and money you get, go ahead and let them nest their extradimensional carry items. That much less that a thief has to make off with in order to deprive them of their entire lives.

 

[Oompa]

as i was going to st. Ives, i met a man with seven wives.
each wife had seven sacks.
each sack had seven cats.
each cat had seven kits.
kits, cats, sacks and wives,
how many were going to st. Ives?

1..

 

[Regicide]

Fundamentally the old rules existed because DMs hated players doing smart things to get around rules: in this case encumbrance rules. We can't have players actually leaving with their treasure, now, can we?

Sometimes it's hard to tell sarcasm, so maybe you're not being serious when you say that you considering sticking a bag inside a bag ranks up there as a "smart" thing.

Anyway, the rule didn't stop people from having lots of bags of holding and carrying all their loot out. It was quite the opposite, it lets players do cool things when the feces hit the fan. Creating rifts and things like breaking staves of power are among the "smart" or at least "posthumously heroic" things that have disappeared.

For 4E, if there isn't a rule about it, I'd say it works just like sticking a normal sack inside another normal sack... i.e. it doesn't really buy you any weight benefit.

 

[Pyrex]

...They said that trying to nest extradimensional sacks was like trying to push two poles of a magnet together and they would resist until you inevitably gave up and they flew apart...

+1

This is how I'd rule it in my games.

 

[Flipguarder]

I get the possible brokenness of putting living beings in extra-dimensional spaces. But whats the problem with putting extra-dimensional spaces inside other extra-dimensional spaces?