D&D 4E New 4E DM asks about essentials

[chubbyloremaster]

After a few adventures in the world of pathfinder and non mainstream rpg I wanted to look back at the great game which D&D was once again. My first encounter with the 4E was very brutal and unforgiving as the WOTC Scales of war campaign produced an easy TPK in the 3rd ecnounter of the adventure and left the players and myself asking why does this things work the way they work, like the daily powers for people using martial abilities. If curiosity killed the cat this would be my 2nd life. An internet reviewer hooked me on the essential thing about class changes and I ordered a couple of essential books and started to look form more essential like items like the assasin (wchich in my opinion is the most loyal version of the assasin since ad&d).

This is where the problem started. Each review that I found criticised Essentials for various reasons and labeled books as essential type books and traditional 4E type books.

Please explain to me the difference between those two takes on D&D and if you can point out some books or magazines where I can find more essential goodies. Thank you.

 

[Pentius]

Well, where you can find more is pretty simple. Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, Heroes of Shadow and recent issues of Dragon(the last year or so) are where you want to look.

As for criticisms/divisions, Essentials is new. Whether you like it, hate it, or don't care, you can always find someone to rant about how bad something new is. Another common idea is that "Traditional 4e" is anything before Heroes of the Fallen Lands, while "Essentials" is anything after(basically, anything made since some changes in WotC's staff). I could nitpick it, but as far as broad generalizations go, it works.

If you're left wondering how things work, like martial dailies, hang around here at ENworld. Every once in awhile someone gets into a good discussion and voices some solid ideas on the subject.

 

[Tony Vargas]

After a few adventures in the world of pathfinder and non mainstream rpg I wanted to look back at the great game which D&D was once again.

Pathfinder's as much D&D as 3.5 was, except for the actual trademark, that is.

My first encounter with the 4E was very brutal and unforgiving as the WOTC Scales of war campaign produced an easy TPK in the 3rd ecnounter of the adventure and left the players and myself asking why does this things work the way they work, like the daily powers for people using martial abilities.

It's pretty hard to produce TPKs with 4e, but I've heard it can happen. The martial characters got daily powers so they wouldn't suck anymore. Simple as that, really. There are 'narrativist' rationalizations for it, though, that work if you can wrap your suspension-of-disbelief around them. Essentials, as you probably notice, largely does away with that sort of thing. Casters (and not even quite all of them, exactly) have dailies, martial types are back in their place. Casters still don't have many or as powerful spells as they did in past eds, especially considering the high nominal levels you can reach in 4e, though, so the gulf between the lowly knight and lofty mage isn't all that vast - just enough that you can tell who's Boromir and who's Gandalf.

Please explain to me the difference between those two takes on D&D and if you can point out some books or magazines where I can find more essential goodies. Thank you.

It's not hard. Essentials represented an official turning point for D&D, an explicit (if not explicitly explained) 'new direction' for the game. The 10 Essentials products and anything and everything that follows until further notice is/will-be consistent with the 'new direction' while being mechanically compatible with prior material (which is also being updated here and there to help it get with the program).

Basically, look at the copyright date in HoTFL. If any book (softbound or hard) has a similar or later date, it's going to be at least /mostly/ 'Essentials style.' I say 'mostly' because exactly what the 'new direction' constitutes is so debateable.

As for your older books, print out all the errata, or just ignore them (ebay, storage box, fireplace, whatever), you can play the game fine with just Essentials+ or with everything.

 

[Damon_Tor]

If you're left wondering how things work, like martial dailies, hang around here at ENworld. Every once in awhile someone gets into a good discussion and voices some solid ideas on the subject.

Daily powers are narrative units. The characters don't think to themselves "man, this triple-spin-and-slash maneuver is hard, and I'm tired, so I better wait till tomorrow till I try it again!" a daily power is a mechanism that gives each character in an ensemble time to shine, to be the star. In reality, when you've got a hero that has an awesome unbeatable move, he's going to use it all the time, but that would make for a pretty boring story. In a narrative, Superman pulls his punches, the Power Ranger's wait to form Megazord, and the Autobot Matrix doesn't open.

D&D mimics an ensemble narrative, and daily powers are a part of that. A Character without a daily powers loses a part of what makes him a part of that ensemble.

Go and watch any ensemble show and start looking for them, the daily powers. They're there.

 

[Rune]

The way I see it, martial daily powers are awesome. Now, no hero can sustain such high levels of awesome all day long, but as a hero increases in power, their reserves of awesome are fortified such that they are able to manifest pure awesome in different ways (different dailies) throughout the day. Still, they can't run on pure awesome all the time. They've got to do it in bursts.

 

[Larrin]

In the first two Players hand books every class followed exactly the rate and method of receiving new types and levels of powers (encounter, daily) and they got all over their class features at level 1. In the third player hand book they experimented with psionics who had a different 'take' on encounter powers. but otherwise they still did most things the same as all other classes. (i mean in terms of how and when you got power, class features, not play).

Essentials started doing variations on the power structure, and sprinkling class features into higher levels rather then just at level one. Thus rather than having a template that applied to every class, like you can find in the beginning of PHB 1 for how/when you get powers, in essentials every class has its own "at what levels do i get things". The are all similar, but seldom identical. This way, if the desinger doesn't want dailies, he doesn't need to, he's got another set of things he gives instead. Even classes that still follow the old style of getting encounters and dailies at the same rate STILL get class features at different levels (often level 5 and 10 for example) and so don't conform to previous templates totally.

Here are a couple of common themes that occur in essentials:

*at-wills that are not attacks, but rather modify basic attacks
*only one encounter power that you get multiple uses of and grows in power
*predetermined choices at some levels or for some builds
*a utility encounter power at level 1 (but itself leveless)
*class features showing up at levels when you used to get dailies, extra utilities, etc

In some ways 4e started in a conceptual 'box' of how characters got power (which i personally liked) that let every one keep pace with everyone else. Now they're thinking outside the box (which i also like) and still letting everyone keep pace (those in and out of the box!!) because there's actually still a box, its just different than the old one, and people have decided its called 'essentials'.

There should be no fear of mixing old and new, I've done it often and its never been a problem.


edit: RE: Errata There are only two errata's you need: The most recent DC numbers and Stealth, and if you have the essential books, you have them. everything else a dm can care or not care about and just make sure his table works to the satisfaction of himself and the players. They're mostly just individual powers/feats/class features that weren't quite rightly powered, but unless it becomes a problem at your table, its nothing big.

......and the Night Hag from Monster Manuel 1, replace 'no save' with 'save ends'. That one you need.

 

[chubbyloremaster]

Thanks for all your advice. I think I will buy all the essential related stuff up to this point and gear myself with some setting oriented books like the returning Dark Sun or Neverwinter.

By the way , do I requier the FR setting to play NW? I found it queer that they released it that way without any indication that I will need the main setting book.

On the last note, what is the best advice for people just starting to play 4E. My, up to this point, was: "get to know your powers VERY VERY well and don't delve to much into details with them".

 

[Tony Vargas]

By the way , do I requier the FR setting to play NW? I found it queer that they released it that way without any indication that I will need the main setting book.

No. The new marketing philosophy seems to be to have new stuff refer to old stuff as little as possible. The exception being Essentials, the 'evergreen' (committed to always be in print and on store shelves) foundation of the game. As little as possible isn't 'never' of course, but, in general. You should be able to use any new book that comes out, as long as you have Essentials on your shelf.

If you want a more complete take on the game, you can't count on books - and there's DDI, which gives you access to all the crunch ever, with all the latest updates.

On the last note, what is the best advice for people just starting to play 4E. My, up to this point, was: "get to know your powers VERY VERY well and don't delve to much into details with them".

Don't take anything for granted. Each class works differently, now, so if it seems from looking at one class that 'spells are something you prepare' or 'divine powers are all about healing' or 'weapon users rely on basic attacks,' you're going to find other classes where that's just not true.

 

[Pentius]

On the last note, what is the best advice for people just starting to play 4E. My, up to this point, was: "get to know your powers VERY VERY well and don't delve to much into details with them".

I wouldn't say "Don't delve into details" I would say "Don't expect that the details need to be the same every time."

 

[Kzach]

This is where the problem started. Each review that I found criticised Essentials for various reasons and labeled books as essential type books and traditional 4E type books.

Reading reviews on the internet is a known carcinogen.

Please explain to me the difference between those two takes on D&D and if you can point out some books or magazines where I can find more essential goodies. Thank you.

I recommend subscribing for a month to DDI to get access to Dragon, Dungeon and the full Character Builder and Compendium. Just through the Character Builder alone, you'll find a butt-load of extra Essentials material.