New combat questions

[SnowDog]

My gaming group has started a new campaign, and with it, some new rules have been exercised. As such, we have some new questions. I did some searching around and couldn't find any definitive answers on these topics, so I thought I'd post.

1. Bull Rush + Mobility
If a combatant with Mobility performs the Bull Rush action, does he get the +4 AC bonus on AoO's triggered by entering the defender's square? How about AoO's triggered as he pushes the defender through threatened areas?

2. Trip + Move
If an attacker trips a defender, and then takes a 5' step back, is he "safe" from that defender next turn (assuming no haste, no reach weapon, etc)? How about if he steps back more than 5' (provoking an AoO in the process, it would appear)?

3. Grapple + Subdual Damage
If an attacker attempts to grapple a defender, he triggers an AoO. If the defender deals damage to the attacker, the grapple is aborted. What if the defender deals subdual damage to the attacker? Is that damage "real" enough to stop the grapple?

4. Disarmed + Response
A combatant is disarmed by an attacker. During his turn, he retrieves his fallen blade, triggering an AoO. Can the attacker attempt to disarm him again, or does the AoO happen before he's got the weapon? If it's before he's got the weapon, he can't use the AoO to target the weapon (to, say, destroy it, or bat it away) ... if it's after, he can attempt a disarm/sunder.

5. Combat Reflexes + Flat Footed
A defender with combat reflexes loses initiative. He has reach, and is rushed by an attacker. Due to his combat reflexes, he gets an AoO on the attacker as he rushes in. Assuming the attacker survives, he then makes an attack on the defender. Is the defender still considered flat footed, even though he has "acted" (in one sense of the word)?

I think that's it....

Thanks for any and all thoughts!

 

[CRGreathouse]

1. I don't think so; yes.
2. No - the defender would just move up 5 feet (move-eq to stand, 5-foot step, attack); yes, unless within partial charge range (w/Readied action).
3. I think it's real enough.
4 The AoO happens before, as usual.
5. Yes

 

[DMFTodd]

1a. No. It's the act of Bullrushing itself that provokes the AoO, not necessarily the movement of bullrushing. So no bonus to AC.
1b. Yes. As he pushes the target back, AoOs there would be due to the movement so it would apply.

2. Yes. Stand-up is a move-equivalent action. To attack is a standard action. A standard action does not allow a 5 foot step so the target would remain out of reach.

3. Yes. I don't see any distinction in the rules of subdual vs. real.

4. AoOs happen before the action triggering it.

5. Flat-footed rules on page 120 specifically states that it is before your first regular turn in the initiative order. So yes, still flat-footed.

 

[Cor Azer]

2. Yes. Stand-up is a move-equivalent action. To attack is a standard action. A standard action does not allow a 5 foot step so the target would remain out of reach.

In general, standard actions do allow a 5ft step to be taken, as long as the character has made no other movement in his turn. Standing up from prone, while a move-equivalent action, does not count as movement for the purposes of taking a 5ft step.

So, no, the character is not safe from an attack after tripping someon and then stepping back 5ft.

 

[SnowDog]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. Looks like about how we interpreted things (except for my DM's on-the-spot rule about subdual damage not being enough to stop the grapple).

 

[SnowDog]

1a. No. It's the act of Bullrushing itself that provokes the AoO, not necessarily the movement of bullrushing.

Are you sure?

Here's the wording from SRD (don't have PHB in front of me):

"First, the combatant moves into the defender's space. Moving in this way provokes an attack of opportunity from each foe that threatens the combatant, probably including the defender."

It seems like the only reason you're triggering an AoO is because you're moving out of a threatened space (the space 5' from the defender). In that case, it seems like Mobility should apply.

 

[DMFTodd]

I stand corrected, kindof. Move-Equivalent actions pg121 says you can take a 5' step *with* a move equivalent action if you have moved no actual distance in a round.

So for our example of standing up (move equivalent but not actually moving any distance), you can take a 5' step. You could then use your standard action to attack.

I still say though that you cannot take a 5' step with a standard action (pg121, standard action, says nothing about a 5' step). You can only take a 5' step as part of a no-move move -equivalent action, a full round action, or a partial action.

 

[DMFTodd]

Are you sure? "Moving in this way"

Am I sure? No. Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I read that sentence to mean "Acting in this way"as opposed to taking it literally as the physical action of "moving" which the mobility feat applies to.

Consider this follow-up logic: AoOs occur *before* the action that triggers them. The AoO from the Bullrush can accidentally hit the target of the Bullrush. Therefore, the action triggering the AoO must be the bullrush itself, not the movement associated with the bullrush. If the AoO was triggered by the literal movement of bullrushing, then the AoO would occur *before* the attacker moves into the hex and thus it wouldn't have a chance to hit the defender. Since it *can* hit the defender, the trigger for the AoO is the action of bullrush (lowering your shoulder), not the literal movement into the hex that causes it. Since it is not a literal movement causing the bullrush, the mobility feat should not apply.

Very Clintonesque rules lawyering don't cha think?

Of course, if you moved more than 5' in the Bullrush, the AoO would come due to your movement and mobility would apply. A wise target would wait for the Ao O of bullrushing so that the mobility would not apply.