New Design & Development: Feats

[neceros]

We saw 4 feats. Three of them are boring as hell retreads of feats that were crappy in 3e, and seem crappy in 4e. They dont change your character's abilities can do very much. One of them seems like a no brainer choice, that does seem to have a large impact. It really seems like it should have been a talent. If we arent suposed to comment on what we see, I question the point of the message boards.

Because this is how they are doing feats now, as mentioned in the article. Basis of power comes from class, rounding out and fine generalizing come from feats. Feats aren't supposed to give you more abilities; class and power selection are.

 

[Andor]

Because this is how they are doing feats now, as mentioned in the article. Basis of power comes from class, rounding out and fine generalizing come from feats. Feats aren't supposed to give you more abilities; class and power selection are.

That still seems like a very strange design decision to me. In 3.x when a new mechanical system was introduced (Psi,Incarnum,Bo9S,ToM) they always had some feats that allowed existing characters to dabble in the new mechanic. To allow a group to wet their toes before diving in headfirst. By redefining feats they've removed that option and so any new system introductions will now have a steeper learning curve because they took away the kiddie pool.

 

[neceros]

That still seems like a very strange design decision to me. In 3.x when a new mechanical system was introduced (Psi,Incarnum,Bo9S,ToM) they always had some feats that allowed existing characters to dabble in the new mechanic. To allow a group to wet their toes before diving in headfirst. By redefining feats they've removed that option and so any new system introductions will now have a steeper learning curve because they took away the kiddie pool.

I may stand corrected on this. I think Trap Finding is a feat that allows people other than rogues to gain this ability. I'm not really sure, as it seems mish-mashed right now.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

That still seems like a very strange design decision to me. In 3.x when a new mechanical system was introduced (Psi,Incarnum,Bo9S,ToM) they always had some feats that allowed existing characters to dabble in the new mechanic. To allow a group to wet their toes before diving in headfirst. By redefining feats they've removed that option and so any new system introductions will now have a steeper learning curve because they took away the kiddie pool.

Personally, I always thought that those feats were typically a trap for the unwary, since you have very few feats, and they're Precious, Precious Things (tm). "Oh, look, I can get a point of incarnum to use on this one feat and it gives me an effect that would be equivalent to a non-incarnum feat, so I have to get more to make it worthwhile?"

They weren't always like that (in particular, the Bo9S "take-a-maneuver" feats), but often enough that I didn't see the point.

Brad

 

[Stogoe]

They dont change your character's abilities can do very much.

Well, given that that's exactly their stated design goal here,, I'd say that they're succeeding pretty well.

 

[neceros]

Personally, I always thought that those feats were typically a trap for the unwary, since you have very few feats, and they're Precious, Precious Things (tm). "Oh, look, I can get a point of incarnum to use on this one feat and it gives me an effect that would be equivalent to a non-incarnum feat, so I have to get more to make it worthwhile?"

They weren't always like that (in particular, the Bo9S "take-a-maneuver" feats), but often enough that I didn't see the point.

Brad

This is exactly right.

I have a friend who enjoys creating a character as opposed to creating a class. He routinely selects feats that have names of traits that he believes embodies his character design. This is not a bad way to do things, but it does leave him powerless often enough to be frustrating. Wizards is trying to stop this problem. By balancing feats from the get-go I don't have to worry when he designs a character because I'll know the feats are essentially balanced so long as you take ones your character would use.

That being said, feats need to be balanced around a centric design. For instance, feats should not only give a +2 skill, but instead offer a +2 skill plus something combat worthy, etc.

 

[GrinningBuddha]

For those concerned about summoning being turfed completely, notice the Warlock entry:

Warlock

They make pacts with devils, feys, the starts, elemental powers. Their initial pact determines a large part of their powers. There are four types of it: Infernal, Fey, Vestige and Star.
Primary attack is eldritch blast and soul ruin.
You can transpose yourself and later others as well.
Invocation can summon.
Curses are an integral part of your power. Curses are associated with your pact. They are per encounter damage dealing / crippling powers. Cursed creatures are easier to damage with your blast or soul ruin. When a cursed creature is dropped to 0 hp, you gain a powerful follow up attack against nearby foes.
As for alignment, most creatures and PC will be unaligned.

 

[Imp]

it seems to me that this IS what they're doing, actually. But some fixes are easier then others. They get the easy fixes out now (PHB) while working on the more problematic ones, to be released later. (Other books)

If they're so greatly simplifying monster stat blocks, the summoning should be much less of a problem. That's the whole thrust of 4E combat, right? – to play through slightly larger combats, faster. If a couple of tagalongs in the party "wreck" this, it doesn't say very much for achieving this goal in general.

 

[Ahglock]

it seems to me that this IS what they're doing, actually. But some fixes are easier then others. They get the easy fixes out now (PHB) while working on the more problematic ones, to be released later. (Other books)

No one said summoning will NEVER be back, after all.

Yeah great so the first PH is half a game, where eventually you can buy enough crap to get the full game you used to play.

This isn't some odd prestige class its a basic fairly standard form of magic. Its like removing blunt weapons form the game, but oh you are so lucky because in PH 5 they may reintroduce them.

Thankfully it seems they wont be removing them.

 

[Ahglock]

In lieu of a fixing a problem (and I think Dr. Akward might be on to something), removing the problem entirely is a perfectly acceptible solution.

If after great effort you still can't fix it, yes removing it can be an option, the absolute last option though.