D&D 5E New DM let Player Die, now what?

[furysmuse]

I am a new DM, but have played for many years 2e, and recently Pathfinder.
So, being new, I sometimes don't give enough detail to my players about the goings on (something I am trying to get better at, I know its a flaw). I am playing with a group that, for the most part, have been playing table top games for 5 - 10 years, so while we are new with 5e, we are not new to role playing games.
One of my PCs made the decision to run into battle alone with three humanoid characters that had attacked the group along with some spiders. The PC did not know what these things were until they turned and faced him, and they ended up being 3 CR 2 humanoids vs. this level 4 character. The other 5 members of the party chose to deal with the spiders before giving chase to the humanoids.
Unfortunately as a result of this encounter the PC died. The party decided to bury him, and have moved forward, and we are now in the middle of a completely unrelated harry situation.
Well, the player is very unhappy with his character's death and has pointed out, since our session ended, all of the mistakes that I made that resulted in his death. I accept them all, and don't disagree that my lack of experience, and description played a part in his passing. I have asked that he and the other players help remind me to give some more details when they feel they need them, I am happy to do so. (I also choose to believe that just because the player might know what something is, doesn't mean that the character would know too, and so I need to implement nature checks, and hope that players role play their ignorance when it arises.)
How do experienced DMs deal with a PC death? At what point do you take back the death and say my bad, You're still alive, then. At what point do you say, too much time has passed?
As an aside, I think it's really interesting that no one thought, hey maybe we can resurrect him...
Thanks!

 

[mr_outsidevoice]

Put it to a vote to the players and abide by the decision. But don't hand wave the death away if voted back to life. He was buried. Someone or something dug him up. That is a plot thread and mystery for the campaign.

Also, let him know that is his ONLY resurrection by vote. If a mistake is not caught before the next session, you live with it and move on. Just don't make it again.

Characters die, often. Players need to accept that and move on. If he charges ahead and gets killed again, that is his fault and point it out

 

[iserith]

I am a new DM, but have played for many years 2e, and recently Pathfinder.
So, being new, I sometimes don't give enough detail to my players about the goings on (something I am trying to get better at, I know its a flaw). I am playing with a group that, for the most part, have been playing table top games for 5 - 10 years, so while we are new with 5e, we are not new to role playing games.
One of my PCs made the decision to run into battle alone with three humanoid characters that had attacked the group along with some spiders. The PC did not know what these things were until they turned and faced him, and they ended up being 3 CR 2 humanoids vs. this level 4 character. The other 5 members of the party chose to deal with the spiders before giving chase to the humanoids.
Unfortunately as a result of this encounter the PC died. The party decided to bury him, and have moved forward, and we are now in the middle of a completely unrelated harry situation.
Well, the player is very unhappy with his character's death and has pointed out, since our session ended, all of the mistakes that I made that resulted in his death. I accept them all, and don't disagree that my lack of experience, and description played a part in his passing.

On its face and without additional context, it just seemed like the player made a decision that left him separated from the party who didn't come to his aid. Said decision led to his character's death which can happen. How did you telegraph the threat of the CR 2 humanoids? What did the player say were the mistakes you made and why do you agree with his assessment?

I have asked that he and the other players help remind me to give some more details when they feel they need them, I am happy to do so. (I also choose to believe that just because the player might know what something is, doesn't mean that the character would know too, and so I need to implement nature checks, and hope that players role play their ignorance when it arises.)

My suggestion is to choose to believe otherwise when it comes to the separation of player and character knowledge. You can't control it, so it's often better to just not worry about it. When a player in my games suggests that he's going to use fire against a troll having never encountered a troll thus far during play, for example, I just ask the player to establish how his character knows it. In the doing, the character gets fleshed out a bit more.

In practice, I recommend telegraphing the real threat the monster poses - the kinds of attacks it might make and whatnot - but also some of its weaknesses. Just enough clues to pique the player's interest to want to find out more (which might call for an ability check) and for him or her to make some decisions based on that information. An example would be "a troll that enters the fight recklessly, smashing walls and beams with its rending claws, heedless of damage it takes in its rampage because its wounds stitch up at a supernatural pace." Then have it more purposefully avoid the flaming brazier or kick it across the room to get it away from the troll. What you've done here is give the players valuable information: It's strong, has dangerous rending claws, regenerative health, and prefers to avoid fire. From there, the players can take action to confirm their ideas about this monster's nature ("I'd like to recall what I know about trolls" -> "Make an Intelligence check..." if it's uncertain whether the character would have such knowledge) or test out their assumptions through trial and error.

How do experienced DMs deal with a PC death? At what point do you take back the death and say my bad, You're still alive, then. At what point do you say, too much time has passed?
As an aside, I think it's really interesting that no one thought, hey maybe we can resurrect him...
Thanks!

Death happens in D&D unless you're taking care to change the stakes of a conflict to something other than life and death. The most important thing when it comes to a character dying, in my view, is that the player have a way of getting back into the game as quickly as possible. I typically handle this by asking players to have backup characters ready to go at all times. Before those characters are ever needed, we introduce them in the fiction in some fashion so that when it's time to tap them in, the transition is fast and smooth. I don't want someone sitting outside of the primary mode of participation with the game longer than they want to. This isn't Monopoly.

If a character death is a result of some kind of mistake of unfairness, then I would leave it to the players to decide what's best to do. I'll admit the mistake and see how they want to handle it, being open to any reasonable suggestions they might have.

 

[redrick]

Yeah, my first character death as a DM was really hard. The reality is that it is very difficult to create the "perfectly" balanced combat, where players feel adequately challenged, but will only lose a PC if they do something that they admit was stupid. My sense of 5e is that it dispenses with a lot of the pretense of this balance, as combats can be very swingy. So, when a character dies, you feel bad because it wasn't a fair combat. On the other hand, when the players spend 2 sessions cake-walking through each of your CR-appropriate encounters, the game will feel boring and your players might even complain that they want a bit of a challenge.

So, I would say to yourself, at the end of the day, D&D just isn't the fairest game. Characters will die and sometimes it will happen because they weren't as aware of the risks as they wish they were. On the other hand, players should always ask for information about combatants before charging in! Just because you didn't say, "you see a CR 2 humanoid in front of you!", doesn't mean they can't ask about the creature's armor, weaponry and general appearance of threat. I think it's DM-cheese to interrupt a travel montage with a save-or-die scenario, but a player charging into combat alone against 3 creatures that he isn't familiar with is definitely not your fault.

So I would apologize to the player for mistakes you feel you made, but I would also say that it's time for him to move on. Just saying, "ok, never mind, your character is alive," kind of ruins the game. If the player really misses his character and wants him back, come up with some sort of side quest to find some hermit who will dig the character up and perform a powerful resurrection spell. You can base the challenge of that quest on how unfair you feel the death was. And I would bring the character back at the level he died at, which might mean losing a level or two to get back a character that he was invested in.

If the player doesn't care about getting his character back, but is more just giving you a hard time because he feels like you cheated him, again, it's time for him to move on. You'll grow as a DM and make your sessions more and more fun and hopefully kill a few more player characters along the way.

 

[Paraxis]

First don't be harsh on yourself, if the player wanted more information on those humanoids before he gave pursuit he should have asked. Sounds like the player got his character into a situation he wasn't ready for and in my experience that is the most frequent cause of character fatalities. Maybe could you have done or said something differently, sure hind site being 20/20 and all but it is a group activity and the weight of this death should be shared by the group not lumped solely on your shoulders.

How do experienced DMs deal with a PC death? At what point do you take back the death and say my bad, You're still alive, then.

I don't, sounds harsh I guess but character death is character death, well OK once in recent history a character got killed in the opening scene of a new campaign within the first few rounds. It was a cleric, the story was about shipwreck survivors, and I had helped the player make this his first 5e character and it took awhile, all that considered, he lived long enough for the others to save him.

At what point do you say, too much time has passed?

In my opinion it should be either immediate basically intervening while the character is dying to stop it from happening in the first place, or much much later but brought back as a huge story hook like surprise guys remember when the wizard saved us from that demon, he is back and wearing a white robe.

As an aside, I think it's really interesting that no one thought, hey maybe we can resurrect him...
Thanks!

That is one of the reasons I don't like saving or reversing PC death in D&D the game already empowers the players to do it themselves.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Specifics would help, but by and large, I agree with iserith. PCs who go off alone, often pay the price for their recklessness. Why did the other players/characters leave him on his own? Did they think he could handle them all on his own?

 

[Nellisir]

This is only a partial reply, but I have what I call the "are you stupid" rule. In other words, characters know a lot of things because...it's their world. A magic-user knows the area of her fireball. Everyone can light a fire. So common knowledge always applies...unless the character is stupid.

In most cases, the opponents don't need to be a big secret.

 

[Sacrosanct]

from what you said, I don't see a mistake you made. The only mistake I see being made is by the player who decided to charge into battle without bothering to find out who he or she was fighting.

And once PCs die? I would advise strongly against just raising them like it never happened. In an ideal world, the player would learn from this and be a bit more careful and act more like a team player with his or her PCs.


Let me copy my sig on another forum here, as it seems appropriate

"D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game. If you're stupid, your PC will die. If you're an , your PC will die (probably from the other PCs). If you're unlucky, your PC may die. Point? PC's die. Get over it and roll up a new one."

 

[Riley37]

Letting a character die is part of the game. Mourn the fallen hero, and let another hero step forwards in their place.
The *player* might learn something from the *character's* death.

Letting a player die is different. When there's nothing we can do - and that happens, a player at my table died from heart complications - most of the fellow gamers showed up for the funeral, and met the rest of his community, and we took one of our gaming session evenings as just a time to share memories of a great player who we'll always miss. I forget the in-game story of how his character stopped adventuring with the party, but I hope that "Saki" would consider it fitting and worthy of how he played that character.

 

[neobolts]

All in all, a tough situation to be in. The most important rule is that everyone is having fun, so bringing the character back seems appropriate. But that PC is most certainly dead in story. Why not make his death and unexpected return interesting? He died, came back to life, and is back...BUT HOW? Add a side story about what happened, maybe crafted with that player's input (dark part, Meepo the Grey White, mad science, etc).

Final thought, the potential "body count" of a campaign and expectations upon death are a good session zero bullet point.