New Faces (Forked: Its the terminology that kills me...)

[ProfessorCirno]

I repeat. To stop growing is to start dying. The discussion is about new gamers. If the hobby stops aquireing new gamers, then the hobby is dead when the second to last person rolling dice today dies. If we keep getting new players, then we can keep gaming even as our ranks are winnowed by jobs, kids and inattentive bus drivers.

Can we get new gamers without a healthy industry? Impossible to say for certain but to quote the mighty eight-ball 'Signs point to No.'

And if the new audience downloads their games instead of buying them? ;p

Again, I don't think ANYONE here has said "Growth is bad." They've said "Growth is growth. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. You can't just paint it all under one brush."

 

[RFisher]

Can we get new gamers without a healthy industry? Impossible to say for certain but to quote the mighty eight-ball 'Signs point to No.'

All my signs point to “Yes”. I don’t think I’ve met a new gamer in years who wasn’t introduced to it by other people. I know a lot of gamers who tend to know very close to nil about the industry, what products are out, and such.

The “to stop growing is to start dying” slogan hints just a bit too much of... I dunno. When your group needs some more players, go recruiting. When you come across someone who’s interested, tell them about the hobby. But it’s not like we need an evangelism movement go forth and make as many gamers as possible.

But I guess I have to admit that might just be how I’m reading it.

I do think that if there is going to be an industry, it should be giving us good introductory products, and I (and many people I’ve talked to about it) have found nigh everything in-print lacking in that area.

 

[Cadfan]

Games need regular support. I know some of you guys are the creme de la creme of gaming, you know and love all kinds of out of print products and all that, and you sneer at people who love new stuff as if they're gauche little kids incapable of understanding true quality, but let me explain to you how us beer and pretzel types work.

We like new stuff. Ok? We do. I know some of the people on ENWorld TOTALLY DO NOT GET THIS, but new stuff is fun. This is a hobby. New things are fun to get excited about, fun to try, and fun to experience for the first time. Eventually the new stuff becomes old stuff, and then we want new stuff again. Not because the old stuff suddenly starts sucking, but because this is a hobby. And one of the fun things to do in a hobby is... new stuff. Stamp collectors don't collect the same stamp over and over. Taxidermists don't stuff, unstuff, and restuff the same carcass. And gamers don't play the same game over and over with the same materials. Not most of them, at least.

Without new stuff, a lot of the allure of the hobby dies. This is why the overall "health of the hobby" matters. Its what finances the new stuff that keeps a lot of us interested.

Feel free to sneer if you must.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

A whole lot of stuff but it doesn't matter because

NOBODY IS SAYING GROWTH IS BAD.

Christ, it's like I'm taking crazy pills or something. For what has to be around the twentieth time, NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS THREAD HAS CLAIMED THAT GROWTH IS BAD. Do you really have to MAKE THINGS UP to defend against?

 

[Asmor]

Funny: Right now the ad on this page is for some site called Gamer's Attic, and their slogan is:

A huge selection of the newest role-playing games

All formatting, especially the italics, is from the ad, not added by me. So at least one retailer seems to think that newness is an important selling point.

 

[Nifft]

NOBODY IS SAYING GROWTH IS BAD.

Christ, it's like I'm taking crazy pills or something. For what has to be around the twentieth time, NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS THREAD HAS CLAIMED THAT GROWTH IS BAD. Do you really have to MAKE THINGS UP to defend against?

Did you miss this one?

To me it would mean it was getting bigger, not necesarily healthier. Obesity is about getting bigger. Sometimes bigger isnt allways better. Personally i dont want people who think of thier character as a "toon" at my table and i don't think that when WoTC starts making books for those people its gonna improve the quality of the game one bit. So healthier IMHO is a real stretch to describe what those people are doing to the hobby.

Cheers, -- N

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Did you miss this one? Cheers, -- N

He's not saying "Growth is bad" either. He's saying what many people here have said. "Growth is growth. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Can't judge it all the same."

 

[Andor]

He's not saying "Growth is bad" either. He's saying what many people here have said. "Growth is growth. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Can't judge it all the same."

Somebody on this thread compared growth to cancer.... If that doesn't sound bad to you, then I don't know what to say.

For that matter saying growth has negative aspects is an entirely spurious argument, since not one person on this thread has said they disliked growth for any reason other than "These kids today with their new fangled music. Why back in my day we had real music, played on rocks, and we liked it!"

Growth keeps the hobby alive. We like the hobby, therefore we should like growth. What on earth harm can new people entering the hobby do to anyone here? Break into your house and force you to conduct your battles to Vanilla Ice instead of the Conan soundtrack?

NOBODY IS SAYING GROWTH IS BAD.

Christ, it's like I'm taking crazy pills or something. For what has to be around the twentieth time, NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS THREAD HAS CLAIMED THAT GROWTH IS BAD. Do you really have to MAKE THINGS UP to defend against?

So if you don't think growth is bad, why are you yelling at people for claiming that growth is good?

 

[Nifft]

He's not saying "Growth is bad" either. He's saying what many people here have said. "Growth is growth. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Can't judge it all the same."

The first three sentences, you may have a point. But not the majority of his tirade: "i don't think that when WoTC starts making books for those people its gonna improve the quality of the game one bit. So healthier IMHO is a real stretch to describe what those people are doing to the hobby."

If I were to say something about "what you're doing to the thread", that's a pejorative. You don't do good things to (... just like angels don't shamble, scuttle or creep).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Hussar]

All my signs point to “Yes”. I don’t think I’ve met a new gamer in years who wasn’t introduced to it by other people. I know a lot of gamers who tend to know very close to nil about the industry, what products are out, and such.

The “to stop growing is to start dying” slogan hints just a bit too much of... I dunno. When your group needs some more players, go recruiting. When you come across someone who’s interested, tell them about the hobby. But it’s not like we need an evangelism movement go forth and make as many gamers as possible.

But I guess I have to admit that might just be how I’m reading it.

I do think that if there is going to be an industry, it should be giving us good introductory products, and I (and many people I’ve talked to about it) have found nigh everything in-print lacking in that area.

NOBODY IS SAYING GROWTH IS BAD.

Christ, it's like I'm taking crazy pills or something. For what has to be around the twentieth time, NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS THREAD HAS CLAIMED THAT GROWTH IS BAD. Do you really have to MAKE THINGS UP to defend against?

Comparing these two quotes.



I honestly think that we seriously DO need an evangalistic movement bringing in people to the hobby. I want D&D to be mainstream. I want D&D to be this massive, worldwide hit because that means I could get to play anytime I wanted, with whomever I wanted. I would mean that I no longer have any gamer shame to worry about. It would mean that game designers would be treated like rock stars in Korea.

Good grief, why is staying a small, niche hobby a good thing?