new gamers from the ranks of WoW types

[DeusExMachina]

D&D is the poor man's hobby.

Compared to pretty much any other hobby, comic book collecting, cars, art, wine, baseball cards, women, CCG etc, it is dirt cheap.

Oh, in general, yeah. However, watching sunday night football (or soccer) is still cheaper though, as it won't cost you a thing...

 

[Gundark]

. When you convert it, a friend of mine paid about 150-160 us dollar just for the 4e core books

That much?!! I paid $80 for them (Amazon)....even buying them from Great White shouldn't have been that much.

 

[Steely Dan]

However, watching sunday night football (or soccer) is still cheaper though, as it won't cost you a thing...

Okay, but I draw the line at categorizing watching television as a hobby.

 

[DeusExMachina]

That much?!! I paid $80 for them (Amazon)....even buying them from Great White shouldn't have been that much.

Yeah, the local store converted the RCC straight from dollars to euros and then added another 5 per book just for good measure. With the current conversion rates that's a really bad deal...

Fortunately amazon's deal was better, so in the end I "only" paid 90 dollar...

 

[DeusExMachina]

Okay, but I draw the line at categorizing watching television as a hobby.

So would I actually. My main point was more that if you really are tight on money even the 3 core books are going to be a large chunk out of your income. Of course they'll last a long while, but it's more likely that such a person would opt for watching tv instead...

Of course the larger barrier is the language barrier. Dutch translations simply don't exist and although the average Dutch(wo)men speaks fairly good English, an rpg requires slightly more than that, I think...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yeah, the local store converted the RCC straight from dollars to euros and then added another 5 per book just for good measure. With the current conversion rates that's a really bad deal...

Fortunately amazon's deal was better, so in the end I "only" paid 90 dollar...

Where do you live? In Germany, I paid only 60 € for all 3 books. (The gift set was even 3 € cheaper, but I did miss that it was available, too)

Hmm... Maybe I shouldn't rub this on your nose?

 

[Steely Dan]

So would I actually. My main point was more that if you really are tight on money even the 3 core books are going to be a large chunk out of your income. Of course they'll last a long while, but it's more likely that such a person would opt for watching tv instead...

Oh yeah, your average person isn't going to drop £60 on a game they might play

Though over here, it costs about £60 for a dozen beers and a pack of smokes...

 

[Steely Dan]

Where do you live? In Germany, I paid only 60 € for all 3 books. (The gift set was even 3 € cheaper, but I did miss that it was available, too)

I live in London (UK), and the Collector's Core Set cost me £54.

I'm out of the loop, is that a good or bad deal?

 

[0bsolete]

I guess I'm an odd case. I started playing D&D about 4 and a half years back. Despite this, I started out playing AD&D. My first GM who I gamed with for a year and a half (he eventually got too bogged down in work) had started playing in 76 or 77 I believe and refused to even acknowledge the existence of 3.x. Yes, I consider myself a gamer. Custom built computer, I play WoW etc.

My original gaming group was comprised of mostly lower middle class. It wasn't that we didn't enjoy video games, its just that D&D was more fun. We played AD&D at the time of course. After that group broke up I joined an online 3.5 community that plays through yahoo messenger that has recently pretty much hit the fan and learned the rules while watching a couple sessions and looking at the srd, then bought the books.

Ironically though, my group was comprised of outcasts from the popular crowd. I had just gotten to the point where I had realized that the friends I had weren't trustworthy or dependable, and had given up on finding my group. Member 2 was egotistical(in an amusing way) but, like me, he considered the behaviors of the popular types to be somewhat depressing. Member 3 was gay in rural, conservative Wyoming, but still he kept to that mold. The group I had was mostly lower-middle class intellectualists with a cynical sense of humor who had in some ways chosen not to fit in with the mold.

To be honest, in my opinion, the group who is insulting the MMO gamers and blaming them for the problems, is quite confused. MMO gamers aren't attracted to D&D because its a shoddy rip off of WoW, just with more math and slower paced. The reason the MMO gamers love D&D, is for the same reason they love MMO's. Its the group. I for one think that WoW is one of the most boring, repetitive and unintuitive games I have ever played. Its dull and uninteresting. Suddenly though, you meet up with two other people who live 400 miles away and you start doing these things together. Then it becomes fun. Number crunching D&D alone won't entertain most people for hours and surely won't create a hobby, its the people. The MMO gamers are the ones who like to have fun, and play games, with friends. To be honest, isn't that what this hobby started as? A couple kids go to the hobby shop, see an interesting book and some dice, grab it, play it and find out that its fun, not because of the game so much, but more because its done while drinking coke and eating funions and listening to George Carlin (RIP) tracks in the background. I for one don't care what game I'm playing. Either way, I'm going to houserule it to be more fun, I'm going to make characters that are fun to play, and then I'm going to have fun with my friends. To me, thats D&D. It seems to me that the gronards are the ones who have forgotten what D&D was really like back then. Weren't the best moments fun, not so much because of what the rule book looked like, but because of what you and your friends did?

 

[Steely Dan]

Number crunching D&D alone won't entertain most people for hours

I am one of those dorks.

But of course I know what you are talking about, and I certainly won't miss writing up a 20th level Tiefling Incarnate 16/Fighter 2/Necrocarnate 2 NPC…