New Mechanic: Equipment Limits (Poise Update 8/15)

[Exen Trik]

Alright, so I have this little project going (well maybe not all that little). I'm removing many of the restrictions on armor weapons and other gear so I needed something else to keep things in check. I came up with an interesting idea for that, and it may also be useful for other d20 games. I'm still working on the basic idea, let alone how just to adapt it for a d20 game, so feel free to point out the inevitable bugs, balance issues and general wonkyness.

EDIT (8/7): New version up, major changes throughout.
EDIT (8/11): Added alterations to class abilities and feats, renamed Readiness to Poise
EDIT (8/15): Updated rules for Poise

There are three types of equipment limits, Might, Poise, and Capacity


Might: This is the limit of how much equipment you can wield without falling all over yourself. It isn't a matter of how much actual weight you can carry, but of your ability to effectively attack while wearing armor and using weapons of various types.

Your Might score has a value of your base Fort score and your Strength modifier, if positive. This does not include enhancement bonuses to Str.

Each weapon or armor has an associated might penalty. Each piece of equipment wielded subtracts this amount from your Might score. During any round where more equipment is wielded than your Might score allows, you suffer a penalty to attack rolls equal to that difference.

Equipment has a Might penalty depending on its type:

Weapons
0: Light and throwing weapons
1: One-Handed melee and ranged weapons
2: Two-Handed melee and ranged weapons
(Throwing weapons include those only for throwing such as shuriken and bolas, as well as any weapon not actually wielded but thrown)
(wielding two or more weapons adds these penalties together)

Armors
0: Padded, Leather, or Studded Leather
1: Chain Shirt, Hide
2: Scale Mail, Chain Mail
3: Breastplate, Splint Mail
4: Banded Mail, Half Plate
5: Full Plate

Shields
0: Buckler
1: Light Shield
2: Heavy Shield
3: Tower Shield
(Under this system, tower shields do not incur a separate -2 penalty to attacks)

Modifiers
-1: Darkwood, mythral, or other light material; each size category smaller than user
+1: Gold, silver, or other heavy material; each size category larger than user



Poise: This is a measure of both speed and organization, and effects your ability to have weapons and items ready to use without having to spend time digging it out.

Your Poise score has a value of your base Reflex and Intelligence modifier, if positive. This does not include enhancement bonuses to Dex.

Keeping an item or weapon ready allows you to keep it "on hand" meaning you can wield or use it without any extra action to pull it out. Weapons can be drawn as a free action with a move, and items (alone or in a container) require only the action to use them.

There is no way to use use more Poise than you have available, anything more than you can handle would simply require a standard action to grab. Readying an item requires a move action, and anything can be unequipped or "unreadied" freely, as part of any other action - including readying another item.

Set a melee weapon to be drawn as part of move action
1: Light weapons
2: One-Handed melee weapons
3: Two-Handed melee weapons

Set a ammo firing ranged weapon to be drawn as part of move action
1: Hand crossbow (w/5 bolts), Sling (w/10 stones)
2: Light Crossbow (w/10 bolts), Light Repeating Crossbow (w/5 bolts), Shortbow (w/20 arrows)
3: Heavy Crossbow (w/10 bolts), Heavy Repeating Crossbow (w/5 bolts), Longbow (w/20 arrows)

Set a throwing weapon to be drawn as part of move action
1: Darts (10), Shruikens (20)
2: Javelin (5), Bolas (5)
3: Net (5)

Set a shield to be drawn as part of move action
1: Buckler, Light shield
2: Medium Shield
3: Tower Shield

Have an item to be accessed as a free action (or used as part of another action)
1: any one item two pounds or less
2: Any one item over two pounds but no more than five.
3: Any one item over five pounds
(Scales with size, as per carrying capacity (large x2, small 3/4, etc))

Special item groups
1: Pouch (Up to 20 items with no appreciable weight), Normal ammo container (10 stones, 10 Bolts, or 20 arrows), Set of like items (potions, scolls, wands, alchemical items, etc) (5 items or less)
2: Extra ammo container (50 stones, 50 Bolts, or 100 arrows), Backpack (Up to 10 items under 5 pounds), Set of like items (potions, scolls, wands, alchemical items, etc) (10 items or less)
3: Sack (Up to 10 items 10 pounds or less), Set of like items (potions, scolls, wands, alchemical items, etc) (20 items or less)
(Number listed is limit for easy access: pouches, backbacks and sacks may hold more total)
(Magic containers such as the efficient quiver and handy haversack can have any item they hold readily accessed, the listed limit does not apply to them)

Modifiers
-1: Each size catagory smaller than user (minimum 1); Only one thrown weapon
+1: each size catagory larger than user: use a weapon with the Quick Draw feat


Capacity: This represents how much magical gear you can maintain at once. This doesn't include magical weapons and armor or instant use magic items such as scrolls or potions. but does most others"

Your Capacity score has a value of your base Willpower and Charisma modifier, if positive. This does not include enhancement bonuses to Cha.

For a magical item to function, it must be equipped to your Capacity This applies item that must be wielded such as staves or wands, or that has a constant effect such as rings or most wondrous items. The amount of capacity needed depends on the strength of it's aura, and This is no way to use use more Capacity than you have available, anything more than you can handle would simply not function. Like other readying an item or weapon, it takes a move action to activate a magic item, and you can freely unequip a magic item to activate another.

Magical Items
1: Weak magic aura
2: Moderate magic aura
3: Strong magic aura
(Applies to Wands, Staves, Rods, Rings, and Wondrous Items)
(Normal limits on slots apply, although limits on ring slots could possibly be removed)

Modifiers
-1: Cursed (minimum 0)
+1: Intelligent
+2: Minor artifact
+3: Major artifact
(Applies to weapons and armor as well)
(For major artifacts, assume a strong a aura as base, so this is always 3 or 6 depending on item type)
(Cursed weapons may or may not give you the option of unequipping them.)


Modifications to Classes and Feats

Multiclassing: Normally having multiple classes means you get the first few levels of saving throw bonuses multiple times, resulting in ofttimes very high saving throws, and sometimes lower ones. Since this throws off the balance of equipment limits (to save nothing of saving throws themselves) the following rule change is suggested:

When taking multiple classes that give a similar progression - such as good or poor saving throws, or BAB advancement - you use the total levels together as a single progression. In other words, you advance according to the progression itself, not the class. This is similar to the stacking of Turn Undead for clerics and paladins, the Uncanny Dodge of rogues and barbarians, and the familiars of wizards and sorcerers.

For example, taking two levels of fighter and two levels of cleric results in a Fort score of +4, just the same as four levels of either class alone. Similarly, such a character has a +1 to Reflex. Bonuses from two different progressions add normally, so this character would have a +3 to Will. Although not necessary for equipment limits, this can easily apply to multiclassing with medium or poor BAB as well.


Monks Unarmed Strike: Since monks have little use for most heavy weapons and even less for armor or shields, they have an alternate use of Might: their unarmed damage is dependent on how much unpenalized Might they have available. Might gained from other classes besides the Monk does count towards this bonus. However, their Str bonus is not counted, and in turn a might penalty equal to or less than that bonus will not effect the monks unarmed damage. Unarmed damage increases as follows:

0-1: 1d4
2-3: 1d6
4-5: 1d8
6-7: 1d10
8-9: 2d6
10-11: 2d8
12+: 2d10

Damage for smaller or larger monks scales accordingly.


Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will: These only have their original effects, and so only provide increased saving throws and not any bonuses to equipment limits.


Weapon Finesse: In addition to its normal effects, this feat also allows any applicable weapon to be equipped using their Poise score rather than their Might. This allows more dexterous and less vigorous characters to wield their weapons of choice without difficulty.


Quick Draw: Readying a weapon to be used with the quick draw feat requires an additional -1 Poise penalty


As always, let me know what you think.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I like where you're going with this. As a matter of fact, if it gets fleshed out and goes through some testing, I'd like to maybe see this in Knowledge Arcana as an article some day.

That's an aside though.

I wonder about Readiness. I'd think that as a combatant improves in combat prowess, he should be better at this. And, your typical fighter's base Ref save doesn't improve very quickly. Maybe something based on BAB? Or maybe a +1 for every iterative attack that the character has? Just something to make a fighter (who should be combat ready) good at this. As it is, a Rogue will be far better at this than a typical fighter.

Dave

 

[Thondor]

Ok long story short, I was going to make a long post about Capacity and I lost what I was writting so here's a somewhat shorter version.

Barb(or any non-spellcaster) with no Cha bonus and no will bonus can only carry 1 item by 3rd level. And 6 at 18th.

Whereas Spell-caster with 14 and 16 cha or wis can hold 8 items at 2level. and 16 at 18th.

This is way to much disparity in my book.

So for capacity at least I suggest a new system, that will unfortunately be greatly affected by the ammount of items you like to have in your game. ( I don't thinK Might and Readiness are as off but I'll make posts about those later)

Capicity version 2:
Follows Medium BAB progression (optionally plus charisma). I would maxs this out at level 11 (8 items plus charisma.)
Noteable thing about this version is that many PC's will not be able to wield magic items untill level 2. and only 3 at level 5.(assuming no cha bonus)

Capcity version 3:
Follows level progression, (optionally plus charisma). I would max this out at level 8.

Optionally for both variants would be to give spell-casters a bonus. This should probably eliminate the Cha bonus though.


Exen Trik, I would also alter your stacking of multiple effects on one item slightly. Because a suit of Spell resistance (15) Full-plate has to be +1, I feel that this should not count as two effects. If the weapon, armour or shield, only has and enhancement bonus then it should count as 1, but if it has one special ability(and thus the abligatory enhancement bonus) then it should only count as one. Multiple continual effect special enhancements are entirely different.

Rereading what I just wrote immediatly above I'm not sure I completely agree with myself, but I don't really agree with you either. At least we all see two perspectives on it now.

 

[Exen Trik]

I like where you're going with this. As a matter of fact, if it gets fleshed out and goes through some testing, I'd like to maybe see this in Knowledge Arcana as an article some day.

Thanks! I hadn't considered this stuff worthy of publication in any form, but it would certainly be cool. I'm posting this here in hopes of making it work with the normal d20 system, so I can use it as a gauge to balance it in the project it's originally for.

My project includes very relaxed multiclassing, mostly slotless magic items, and no spell failure chance mechanic, so I needed some way to encourage (but not outright force) the traditional archetype builds. Since the archetypical equipment use follows much the same pattern as saving throws, basing one on the other seemed natural.

With Might mages are less likely to wear heavy weapons and armor, and Capacity limits warriors from using too much magic gear. Alchemical and magical items also play a greater role, so Readiness is there to regulate that. And there are a few specific effects that use the limits in various other ways, such as abilities for martial artists and archers to use unspent Might for bonuses.

I wonder about Readiness.

That is the least defined of the three, and in the most need of adjustment. The required readiness for a weapon should probably be dropped to perhaps one point for one handed weapons, and 2 points for two handed weapons, That way any fighter with a dex of 12 or that is at least 3rd level can draw a longsword quickly but may fumble around with a greatsword. A 20th level fighter can have half a dozen swords on hand at a time, and a 20th level rogue can have three times as many daggers, which sounds plenty fun.

The issue about containers probably needs more adjustment, such as how many tiny/diminuitive/fine items that fit in a pouch or arrows in a quiver. There's probably something on this somewhere but I haven't seen it. Anyone have some advice before I just start making stuff up?


One other thing, I'm really not satisfied with the names of the three limits or the term "limit" itself. Any ideas on that would be appreciated, for my thesaurus skills have faultered.

This is way to much disparity in my book.

That is a valid point, and in my design it's mostly its an issue of the kinds of bonuses in the d20 system. My project as entirely different kinds of magic items, and far less are meant to be used at a time. I'm going to go back over how it works and revamp it.

 

[Thondor]

I wonder about Readiness. I'd think that as a combatant improves in combat prowess, he should be better at this. And, your typical fighter's base Ref save doesn't improve very quickly. Maybe something based on BAB? Or maybe a +1 for every iterative attack that the character has? Just something to make a fighter (who should be combat ready) good at this. As it is, a Rogue will be far better at this than a typical fighter.

Dave

I can't agree with you Dave, I do think that classes like the Ranger, Rogue, Monk and Bard, should be a lot better at pulling items out of their belt.
Most warriors will only want to switch between two or possibily three items: eg: main melee, ranged and backupmelee or weird item(flask of acid, holywater, tanglefoot bag, rope) -- I do worry when I think of the fact that shields should be included in this esp for low levels.

whereas light combatants who are highly mobile and excell because of there versatility should be just that. Versatile. Able to have easy access to:
main melee, offhand, ranged, backup ranged, backup melee, rope with grappling hook, use activated magic items, flask of acid, holywater, tanglefoot bag, rope, etc.

However I'm not sure I follow the rules as Exen Trik has laid out for Readiness.

Rerading the text you seem to be suggesting that you can draw any item that you have more Readiness points then as a free action. (this would mean that all you need is 4 to draw an unlimited number of items. 4 would be a very easy number for a 1st level Rogue to have)

While I believe what was intended was that you could have a number of stored items (based on the items size) held at the ready for quick drawing. Regardless I do think this is the better mechanic to pursue. So rather then having and unlimited number of items to draw as a free action, a 1st level 12 dex and 12 int Rogue/Bard/Ranger/monk would be able to have a total of Items with a total rating of 4.
eg: a shortsword (1) light shield(2) and crossbow (1)
or a club(1) bow (3) and flask of acid

 

[Kisanji Arael]

I've been tinkering with something similar to this, but yours is so much better in design. I'll wait for this to come out.

However, if I can take a page out of my own book before I trash it, I think you should link material components and arcane/divine foci to readiness, in addition to weapons. Oh, and one more thing: you should put in an adjustment (in the might section), for weapons' larger/smaller size categories, or you'll have a barbarian hauling around a gargantuan dagger, claiming it impairs his might by 0.

 

[Exen Trik]

I do worry when I think of the fact that shields should be included in this esp for low levels.

Hmm well, a first level fighter with a Str of 14 would has a Might of 4 and be able to use scale mail (2), a martial one handed weapon (1) and a small shield (1). Looks reasonable to me, although if you're used to toting around half plate and tower shields by 3rd level you'd probably feel a pinch. Depends on your play style I suppose, if you find it too restrictive the costs can be lowered.

Tower shields also have that -2 penalty to hit just for using it. Under this system you could probably drop that entirely, since it already provides penalties if you can't use it well. But in that case I'd increase the requirement to 4.

I'm also going to modify the penalty from wielding to much, so that the loss to AC only counts against bonuses from Dexterity. Matches the normal armor mechanics better that way.

While I believe what was intended was that you could have a number of stored items (based on the items size) held at the ready for quick drawing.

Yup, that's what I was going for but I forgot to mention it.

To ready an item or weapon (or activate magical effects for Capacity) requires a move action per item. You can also ready another item at the expense of a current one for one move action, "unreadying" is a free action by itself.


Regarding Capacity: I'm going to simplify this greatly, and limit it to my original concept of limiting Wondrous Item use. Weapons and armor, staffs, wands and everything else don't count against Capacity. Costs are related to the strength of the Wondrous Items magical aura, as follows:

Faint aura: 1 point
Moderate aura: 2 points
Strong aura: 3 points
Artifacts: 4 points

I originally had been using the term "Capacity" in place of "Limit", but had no good term for the magic item use. Anyone have ideas on that?



EDIT: I seem to have a talent for replying seconds after other people do.

However, if I can take a page out of my own book before I trash it, I think you should link material components and arcane/divine foci to readiness, in addition to weapons.

The rule would cover that just as well, but it does deserve it's own mention. Seems like it would be one point each? Readying your component pouch shouldn't make much difference since drawing the materials is basically part of the spell. You could require it for quickened spells though.

Oh, and one more thing: you should put in an adjustment (in the might section), for weapons' larger/smaller size categories, or you'll have a barbarian hauling around a gargantuan dagger, claiming it impairs his might by 0.

Ah, good idea. How about: Every increase in the size category of a weapon is a one point increase in Might requirement. Smaller ones can decrease it by one each size category, minimum zero of course.

 

[Felnar]

interesting ideas
but i'd recommend not basing the might penalties on simple/martial/exotic

as you have it, a rapier has a higher penalty than a morningstar

 

[Thondor]

First a Suggestion for new names: Capacity can be called Aptitude ( Magical Aptitude being the longer version)
I will call it that from now on. Whish I could think of a good name for the three of them: Limits, capabilities, although I suppose they could all be called Capacities be confusing for us reading the thread though.

Just wanted to post something that most of you have probably realized:

Monks will have great Might, Readiness and Apititude

Clerics and Druids will have good Might(bosted by typically decent str and con) and Aptitude(boosted by good wisdom)

Rangers and Bards will have good Readiness (boosted by good dex and decent int) and Aptitude (boosted by decent wisdom -ranger- and great cha-bard)

Barb, Pladins and Fighters will only have good Might (boosted by good str and good Con)

Wizards and Sorcerers will only have good Aptitude (boosted by decent Wis and great cha - sorcerer)

Rogue's will only have good readiness. (boosted by great Dex)


I'm trying to point out that Classes's typical stats reinforce the limits (Capacity, Readiness, and Might) that they are good at because of their Saves. This exagerates their all ready good limits even more and makes there bad limits even worse.

Therefore I believe that we should make the system even simplier, and less unbalanced along class lines.

Capacity, Readiness and Might version 2

Aptitude= Wis bonus + Cha bonus + Character level/2

Might = Con bonus + Str bonus + Character level/2

Readiness= Dex bonus + Int bonus + Character level/2

Simple, elegant with no need to consult Saving throw tables. Moreover the player decides by their stat assingments of their Character intead of being railroaded into it by their class.

Moreover the benefit lies somewhere between Good saves(which seemed too beneficial) and Bad saves (which seemed too limiting)

I can't decide wether penalties should be included -- I'm leaning towards yes, after all almost all PC's have only one or two negative stats - if any, the chance that they are both on the same Limit is very low. (At least for my game.)

 

[Thondor]

Might

I think that the penalty for exceeding your Might Limit may be a little to much, -1 to attack and AC for everypoint? seems rather sever.

I have a few thoughts one is having them do alternating -1 to AC and then -1 to Attack
ie.
Points beyond Might Penalty
1 -1 AC
2 -1 AC and -Attack
4 -2 AC and -1 Attack
5 -2 AC and - Attack

The other thought alternating Dex and Str penalty

Finally all though this could be another effect : some sort of relation to Movemment penalties of armour types and AC Check penalties to might scores.
Thoughts?