New Player resource site - aka Character Builder for PF

[gergLeft]

So I've been helping to teach a few new players and I keep running into the same problem - too many options and trying to sort out what they do qualify for and what they don't, as well as trying to teach them in an order that makes sense, etc.

Mostly it's the fact that when you backtrack while teaching - the other person gets royally confused - so I started thinking - wouldn't it be nice if we had a full fledge character builder for Pathfinder. Yeah, I know there is HeroForge Excel sheet and a couple other programs out there. HeroForge/PathfinderForge are dependent on everyone having Excel (not to mention how to use the freakin' thing). Other systems are downloadable and have the core classes/races, but aren't easily expandable.

Site is Dungeons and Dragons Character Folio and it explains what I currently plan on doing. Basically the site would work like this - new players would be able to check out the general description of the races & classes that are currently in the system. They would then be able to use the character builder to build a valid character using PF's character creation rules. Once complete, they'll have a character sheet w/ all their attack bonuses & everything computed for them to print, and the interface on the site would have hover tips throughout that would explain HOW the numbers were derived.

I had a website that allowed users to enter their characters into the site and it'd retain them and print out character sheets for them as well as link to campaigns where the DM could put character & campaign notes as well as track XP (DM enters XP and players immediately have it added to their character). Well - stuff happened and the site died...I'm not looking to rebuild the site w/ a great character builder. Now because of intellectual property issues, I cannot put non-OGL content in, but users can "create" classes & races in the site. So majority of the content will be user controlled - able to add classes that don't exist in the system currently. Once added - EVERYONE will be able to share in the usage of that class w/ no effort on their part other than selecting it for their next level or next character.

My question to EN World is this - Would you guys use this? If I get enough saying yes (which means each response is worth entering even if it's "yeah, I'd use it") then I'll build the character builder - if not, it's not worth my time as it will have a full validation system and is very complex.

 

[ruemere]

There is definitely a need for PFRPG character builder. Heck, a statblock builder would do wonders.

The issues: legality and quality. The "full validation" is also worrisome - some aspects of the system are beyond your ability to reproduce and therefore you may have problems with achieving it.

Can you give us something of an example of stuff in action? Like guest account?

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[gergLeft]

Legality - yes, that is an issue. As author of the system I am not allowed to copy non-OGL data, although I can provide an interface for users to put custom data in. If that matches against the non-OGL books...well I can't exactly validate that so it becomes allowed.

Validation - I have a couple thoughts on this, and your correct - there are some things that you just can't account for.

1st - anything that I CAN account for, I will.
2nd - I plan on adding ability to override rules for advanced players.
3rd - I will include note areas on the digital and printed character profiles to explain those things that I cannot account for. "Non-factored" will be the term.

System is not developed as of yet, but there will be some kinda of beta test period. IF I charge for the system at a later date, the beta testers will stay on as free users - but my previous version of the system did not have any fee related [wasn't nearly as complex either]. I will keep these boards updated (assuming I have enough interest) - most likely resurrecting this thread so that I don't have to re-explain this all later.

 

[IronWolf]

Mostly it's the fact that when you backtrack while teaching - the other person gets royally confused - so I started thinking - wouldn't it be nice if we had a full fledge character builder for Pathfinder. Yeah, I know there is HeroForge Excel sheet and a couple other programs out there. HeroForge/PathfinderForge are dependent on everyone having Excel (not to mention how to use the freakin' thing). Other systems are downloadable and have the core classes/races, but aren't easily expandable.

My question to EN World is this - Would you guys use this? If I get enough saying yes (which means each response is worth entering even if it's "yeah, I'd use it") then I'll build the character builder - if not, it's not worth my time as it will have a full validation system and is very complex.

I would say it would have to bring more to the table than the existing ones that are out there now. PCGen is out there and works pretty well, though they are still working on APG content I believe.

There's also The Only Sheet, which I haven't used but gets mentioned a fair amount on the Paizo boards.

There is also Hero Lab which is a pay option but is a pretty nice character builder which includes a lot of the sourcebooks already out there with more on the way.

Now an character builder that was online/web based does have a certain appeal to it.

There is definitely a need for PFRPG character builder. Heck, a statblock builder would do wonders.

PCGen can do this I believe. I know Hero Lab can.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I'd look at it (and 'voted' that way) but only as an option to present to my players who don't want to buy a system. I use HeroLab. While it's got a few quirks I've found that it handles all of my needs very well. It validates pretty much everything, allows for house rules and custom classes/races/feats/pretty much everything, tracks conditions, etc. and has excellent customer support.

Edit: Forgot to mention that HeroLab is the 'official' PF Character Builder - licensed by Paizo, and thus able to support even their non-OGL stuff.

 

[gergLeft]

Are there be features that DMs currently don't have, or are spread out that I could add in to make the site more appealing; perhaps not tools for running your game that you'd have to have the computer there, but perhaps tools for managing the players & characters (messages, XP tracking/distribution, campaign/character notes, etc.)

Edit/Add:

Edit: Forgot to mention that HeroLab is the 'official' PF Character Builder - licensed by Paizo, and thus able to support even their non-OGL stuff.

Albeit they're licensed to publish non-OGL, but it looks like you have to pay for access to content from each new book (or a second game system), ontop of the cost of the program. your looking at easily $40

 

[gergLeft]

oops accidental double post (where's the delete posting button?)

 

[IronWolf]

Albeit they're licensed to publish non-OGL, but it looks like you have to pay for access to content from each new book (or a second game system), ontop of the cost of the program. your looking at easily $40

Yes, if you play different game systems Hero Lab can get expensive quite quickly. I'm playing or GM'ing primarily Pathfinder these days though so the multiple system cost isn't really a factor at the moment for me.

So far Hero Lab has proven worth the money and I am one of the first people to choose open solutions for tools I use rather than a pay for solution. But it has helped immensely validating characters for two campaigns I had start up recently.

With that said, if someone comes up with another solution that works as well as Hero Lab and is less expensive I would certainly be open to checking it out and consider switching. Of the tools out there now though I have found myself very happy with Hero Lab.

 

[ruemere]

[...]
PCGen can do this I believe. I know Hero Lab can.

While I remain a strong supporter of the former, I also happen to believe that there are certain issues with usage of PcGen (Yahoo groups, QA delivery, data format, functionality). You simply need to know what you're doing to achieve your ends - and so, while I do use the application for my campaign, I have become hesitant with recommending it to people without strong motivation to learn it.
Oh, and its flexibility leaves quite a lot to be desired... again, unless you _really_ know what you're doing, you may be unable to put stuff into it. [1]

Hero Lab represents something I do not like, namely DRM, mounting costs and lack of openness. [2]

Given the above, something simple and usable would be a recommended choice.

Regards,
Ruemere

[1] My campaign includes custom stuff and non-open content. Putting it in (and working around bugs) took a lot of sweat.
[2] I do not begrudge people earning money for their work. However unless I can help it, I steer away from DRM stuff - when something you pay for is not really yours, it is not really yours.

 

[gergLeft]

when something you pay for is not really yours, it is not really yours.

That's why the system I had in the past was free - and I expect this one to be usable free in the future, although I never argue w/ donations

As for entering custom / non-open content: that is what my user content controls are for - it will enable you to enter in anything that I can accommodate (and if it doesn't when you get to it - let me know and I can work to accommodate it). If the custom content happens to look exactly like a PrC out of an obscure book...I won't know - nor will I really be checking for it. I will preload the system w/ much of the OGL content.

As for using it (once the data is in) - this system is being design primarily for new players - so it will be quite straight forward. Once the basic features are established, I will expand functionality.

My vision is that experienced players feed the system, and the system feeds the newer players and then both experience and non-experienced get to enjoy the benefits of the character builder.