Finally have a chance to get to this again. Thanks for the comments. This race was originally drafted before the minotaur, so it is in need of some work to bring it up to that level.
redrover said:
Risi: Might be useful to see a write-up of these as a monster race, too.
I’ll eventually get around to that. I wanted to nail down the PC race version before adapting that into monster stat-blocks.
redrover said:
Elemental Resistance
You might consider advancing resistance in increments of 5 levels; that is, resistance 5 + 5/5 levels (or 1st=5, 5th=10, 10th=15, 15th=20, 20th=25, 25th=30, 30th=35). This gives more character milestones, all resistance stays in multiples of five, and this discourages DMs from trying to reverse-engineer existing monster resistances by monster level.
I was looking to keep this identical to the mechanics already used for the Tielfing, making it closer to RAW.
redrover said:
Unmovable Mass: Perhaps a case can be made for holding against a 2-square slide or push. They are considerably larger than dwarves and perhaps even more immovable. Or consider this upgrade as a Paragon feat.
I prefer to keep it at 1 square for core, to maintain the RAW balance. However, I do like the idea of making it a Paragon Feat.
IMPROVED UNMOVABLE MASS [Risi, Paragon]
Prerequisites: Str 19, Dex 15, Risi
Benefit: Your unmovable mass racial trait improves to prevent up to 2 squares of forced movement.
redrover said:
Half Giants: Maybe sharpen your focus by calling them "elemental half-giants". There are other half-giant races out there, and the suggested phrase is more accurate for your subject matter.
Half-giants is purely a fluff oriented nomenclature for the race and is world specific. Again, keep in mind here that this wasn’t originally intended to be a generic one-size-fits-all D&D Half-Giant race. This is a homebrew world specific race. In that world, the Risar are the only race referred to in slang (seen as derogatory by risar) as half-giants.
redrover said:
Earth Half Giant: Hmmm, Fire=Fire, Cold=Water, Lightning=Air, and something is missing. Maybe Acid=Earth?
I had thought about this, but I decided that nothing really fit organically. Everything, such as using Acid, seemed rather contrived and forced. I would rather follow the WotC teams design philosophy of not forcing unnatural “balance” purely for the same of completism. None of the ‘earth’ oriented type of giants really have an “energy” affinity. The closest (in my mind) would technically be lightning anyway since the earth is a natural ground for electrical energy.
However, with that said, I do think the race needs to reflect more giant type ancestries. The problem is, we don’t have enough giants to work with since WotC in their infinite Wisdom (/sarcasm off) decided to only include 2 giants in the MM. We do know a few basics though. I think all of the following “energy” types could be included in the racial choices:
• Cold (frost)
• Fire (fire)
• Lightning (Storm)
• Necrotic (Death)
• Thunder (Storm)
Ones I don’t really see fitting any known giant types:
• Acid
• Force
• Poison
• Psychic (maybe Fomorian??)
• Radiant
Am I being too closed minded in thinking that some of the energy types just don’t fit thematically?
redrover said:
Stout Brawn: I wonder if this poaches too much on dwarves. Of all the traits, this one seems most expendable, should you want to cut down to a three-trait limit.
Yes it does step on the dwarf’s toes. I’ve dropped it from the draft. However, I had wanted something to indicate their natural strength. How about this instead?
Giant’s Brawn: Your multipliers for Carrying, Lifting and Dragging are 1.25 the normal amount (page 222), thus x12.5, x25, and x62.5 respectively.
This could then be augmented with a Heroic Feat.
IMPROVED GIANT’S BRAWN [Risi, Heroic]
Prerequisites: Str 19, Con 15, Risi
Benefit: Your multipliers for Carrying, Lifting and Dragging become 1.5 the normal amount (page 222), thus x15, x30, and x75 respectively.
redrover said:
Innate Toughness: Your racial build and power give you 5 more hit points at 1st level, another 5 at 11th level, and 5 more at 21st level. These hit points are cumulative with the Toughness feat, if you take it.
This would make for a good Heroic level feat to make the riser tougher than other races. I am thinking a prerequisite of Con 15.
redrover said:
Oversized Weapons: Perhaps add a prohibition against light blades and any weapon scaled to Small creatures. ("Too small! Worthless in the hands of a Half-Giant!"). The prohibition against light blades could be lifted by a Risi Heroic feat representing special light blade training.
The only problem I have with this, is that it automatically bans the race from entry to the Rogue class, which I think is a big No-No.
However, I was thinking of slightly changing this since so many are using Oversized Weapons.
Perhaps something like…
Mighty Build: You gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls with melee weapons.
redrover said:
Mighty Charge: I don't like the way this can stack with Powerful Charge at this Tier. You can get +5/+5 at 2nd level! Maybe reconfigure: {snip}
I like this change. Noted.
redrover said:
General Note: Consider increasing the Strength requisites of the Risi Strength-based feats by +2 .
Done.
redrover said:
Improved Resistance: Seems way too powerful. MM p104, even Elementals don't get immunity from their element; why would an elemental half-giant?
Agreed. Like I said, this was an early draft and I was still in a more 3E mindset where immunity wasn’t as big a deal at those levels.
I’d like to avoid an Epic Tier feat so I propose the following.
IMPROVED RESISTANCE [Risi, Paragon]
Prerequisites: Con 17, Risi
Benefit: Your racial elemental resistance increases by +3 (to 8 + one-half your level).
redrover said:
Mountain Among Men: While it might be claimed that this is a limited case, it seems to me common enough to warrant only a +1 AC bonus, especially if the elemental half-giant is Large.
Noted. Reduced to +1 AC and increased the Prerequisites to CON 15, DEX 15 to make it harder to attain.
redrover said:
In general: Your attribute requirements seem a bit low for the Tier.
Also noted. Ability Prerequisite increases:
*
Giant’s Throw (Str 21, Dex 15)
*
Improved Resistance (Con 17)
*
Improved Unmovable Mass (Str 19, Dex 15)
*
Mountain Among Men (Con 15, Dex 15)
redrover said:
Titanic Retort: I'm not sure why you're using a Strength mod damage here when you used a Dex mod damage previously for elemental damage.
I would much prefer a "shockwave" effect that pushes opponents out of the half-giant's reach. Prone in a threatened square for multiple opponents seems an extremely strong result for this power level.
This was done for two reasons.
1)
Champion’s Strike is a flat Paragon Path “feature”. Path features tend to concentrate on Secondary ability scores rather than primary ability scores since they are always active, unlike powers that are restricted in use. In this case, Dexterity seemed the most appropriate ability.
2)
Titanic Retort is a power. Powers focus more on primary ability scores, which in this case is Strength.
As for the prone note, that makes sense. This would mean changing the power as follows:
Hit: 3d8+ Strength modifier damage of your chosen hereditary energy, and the target is pushed 3 squares.
redrover said:
Titanic Presence: The clause "until bloodied" might weaken this too much. In my experience, DMs tend to split into two camps. One concentrates on putting down effective PCs (especially when monsters are intelligent), the other spreads damage among PCs in order to keep the maximum number of players active. This dichotomy muddies the testing waters considerably.
If this was a monster ability, I believe most parties of equal level would negate it in 1-2 rounds, which is too soon, IMO. My strategy for an accurate playtest would be to run this intensively in a PvP environment and see what happens.
I was afraid this would be too overpowered if it didn’t have the condition. However, I can see the arguments here. After looking at this some more and running a few quick tests there are two ways to deal with this.
1) Leave the text of the ability “as-is” but make it an Encounter Power.
2) Change the text to remove the “or until bloodied” condition and retain its daily status.
My instinct says Option #1.
redrover said:
Titanic Blasting Strike: You might find friendly fire issues cramp this one too much. If so, you might reduce the burst to 2 squares or just exclude the half-giant's allies from the effects (I rather favor the latter).
In any case, I would make 2[W] of the damage energy damage. (In other words, a "miss" deals only energy damage to the target, and a hit deals 2[W] physical damage + 2[W] energy damage.)
Ok, so this would change the power to the following text.
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage plus 2[W] damage of your chosen hereditary energy, and ongoing 10 damage of your chosen hereditary energy type (save ends).
Miss: 2[W] damage of your chosen hereditary energy, and no ongoing damage.
Effect: All enemies within 2 squares of the target take ongoing 5 damage of your chosen hereditary energy type (save ends).
redrover said:
Practice Makes Perfect: Seems way too broad to me. Rerolls on attacks and damage seem to poach other race and class traits. I'd try just limiting this power to Skill and ability checks and see how it plays.
This power is identical to the Kensei path feature and since there are many paragon path features that are replicated form class to class, I don’t see this as out of line.
redrover said:
Primal Recharge: IMO, this is balanced only if it can function a maximum of once per encounter. ("It's a half-giant, Jim, not an energizer bunny!")
Noted. Changed to:
Primal Recharge (16th level): Once per encounter, when you score a critical hit with a two-handed weapon, you regain the use of an encounter power you’ve already used in the encounter.
redrover said:
Sweeping Strike: First, how can this not be vs. Reflex? How is armor going to help someone smaller and weaker than the half-giant against this attack?
Second, see Retort above. I'd recommend having affected opponents in reach pushed directly back out of reach. (Make them close all over again instead of just stepping in.)
Good call on AC vs. REF; text changed to:
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target is pushed 3 square.
redrover said:
Giant's Charge: Not sure why you're requiring a minor action for this, unless I am misreading it. Can you do this with a non-charge move or is it charge only? If charge only, why the load of a minor action?
Suggest half-giant can move through squares occupied by smaller opponents. (Could he, for example, move through an ancient red dragon?)
Perhaps the name is misleading? I’ll rename it to
Giant’s Dash.
This is a minor action, as are almost all Personal Utility powers. It does Not require a charge action to use, but you can use a charge action and gain both the benefits of this power and the benefits of the charge 9they don’t have to be mutually exclusive).
As to the moving through enemy spaces, I think I’ll reword it as
“you can move through enemy spaces of any creature of your size or smaller”.
redrover said:
Fearsome Onslaught: This one looks really out of balance compared to Fighter powers.
Actually, this is in fact “
Lion of Battle” the Pit Fighter 20th level Attack Power with only this change:
Miss: The target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
redrover said:
Anyone is free to play test the race. My current situation doesn’t give me a lot of opportunity for hard play testing unfortunately.
Thanks again for the feedback.
