New Spell: Mind Trap

[HalfElfSorcerer]

Mind Trap
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range Close (25 ft + 5 ft/2 levels)
Target: One living creature/2 levels
Duration: One round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

You cause living creatures within range to become highly confused by multiple paradoxes, brainteasers, and impossiblities all at once. Creatures affected can take no actions, cannot make Reflex saves and suffer and a -4 penalty to Wisdom for the duration of the spell. After the last round of the spell's duration, the creatures must make another Will save (including the -4 to Wisdom) or suffer 1d4 points of temporary Wisdom damage.
Material Component: A tiny strand of silver thread (negligible value).
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So whaddaya think? I don't know if I got the balance right, but compared to confusion, this one would be pretty powerful if I extended the range or anything like that. Tell me if you think I should change anything.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

The school and spell descriptiors are right... but compare to confusion at 4th level?

no way dude - Compare this to Otto's Irresistable dance at 8th level.

Otto's Dance requires a touch attack - but awards no save.
Your spell awards a will save. that is alright I guess, when it comes to balance, in that there is a chance the spell won't work.

But - that is where it ends.

if you lose the temporary wisdom damage - the spell's effects are practically identical in all but what the subject acutally does. In terms of game effect, this is slightly better as you render the reflex save outright impossible, instead of only on a natural 20

Otto's dance can hit only one target - but this can hit multiple targets.

The duration of the dance is MUCH shorter.

This thing works at range - with Otto's Dance - you have to get up close and personal.

Now - you are wanting an effect like Otto's dance, on multiple targets, and you want to add in 1d4 wisdom damage?

Just isn't going to happen. Sorry. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Al]

I'd disagree with you, Magus_Jerel. It looks fine to me.

Compare it with Confusion, as you yourself said.

Same duration, roughly the same amount of creatures affected (fewer at low levels: confusion will hit more than three, more at high levels: you're unlikely to hit ten with confusion). Same saving throw.

As for the effect? I'd say it's probably about equivalent. A creature affected by confusion only has a 1 in 10 chance of doing something constructive, and a 3 in 10 he attacks his buddy. And of course he automatically attacks back whoever attacked him last, so if you get a load of confused enemies, they'll keep hacking away at each other.

Magus_Jerel, you seem to underplay the 'no save' element of Otto's Irresistable Dance. With a save, Otto's would be worse than Hold Person (2nd level cleric): only lasts d4+1 rounds and no coup de grace. The whole point of Otto's is that there is NO save.

On balance though, this does seem a little strong at 4th. Bump it up to 5th: it's not as strong as Feeblemind or Dominate Person, but it can affect more people, as so is probably more in line with this power level rather than 4th, especially with the Wis damage factored in.

 

[durath]

my two coppers:

It does need to be bumped to 5th and lose the no reflex save allowed thing. Other than that it looks pretty good.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

It is the no reflex save allowed that makes it instantly compareable to Otto's Irresistible Dance. Confusion does not have this effect at all.

Al - most of your "no save" spells that aren't of extreme level (and even quite a few that are) require attack rolls -
enveneration, Melf's acid arrow Otto's dance ect...

What I see happening here is a player following up with fireballs... and that is extremely abusive.

Dropping the no reflex save text - trades 1d4 wisdom damage to each creature for not starting one heck of a fight in the ranks.

 

[Al]

M_J: Like I said, it seems to be best at 5th level.

The best way to compare it is to compare it to other 5th level enchantments. It is clearly weaker than Feeblemind (which screws people permanently) or Dominate (which makes someone your slave for 1 DAY/level), but affects more people.

It is probably not as strong as mass suggestion (6th level).
It is probably roughly as strong as Chained Hold Person (5th level for clerics): the saves are easier but the effect is softer (no coup de grace).
It is probably marginally stronger than Confusion, all things considered.
Hence 5th level seems about right.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Al...

Feeblemind = broken in the first place

Dominate text...
Subjects resist this contril, and those forced to take actions against thier nature recieve a new saving throw with a bounus of +1 to +4, depending on the type of action required. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out.

so - they aren't your "slave" necessarily - and if you make them act accordingly, the spell might break.

Thrall - from the PsiHb be a different matter.
it costs 5000xp a casting
it be a 9thl level power
they ARE your slave...

I don't allow psionics IMC anyway.

With the "no save text" removed - and comparing it to confusion - it is a fourth level spell alright. but - there is no question on it - you HAVE to toss the no save text.

 

[Al]

M_J: Feeblemind may or may not be broken: it's powerful, but I wouldn't say broken (Slay Living usually knocks out a spellcaster just as well), but is not the point. It is in the PHB, so is a valid 'benchmark' spell.

Dominate may not make them your 'slave' per se, but you can probably turn them against erstwhile friends if they are neutral or chaotic evil and you have adequate social skills.

Another useful benchmark spell is Greater Command. You can command twice as many enemies to go to sleep (meaning you can coup de grace them and chop them up). Now, GC is certainly very powerful at 5th, but again is a benchmark spell. Mind Trap is not stronger than that.

More significantly, compare it to 6th level spells. By now, metamagic is coming into play, so Maximised Fireballs are flying around. Not to mention the actual 6th level spells themselves: Harm (ok, it IS broken), Blade Barrier, Disintegrate and the like are appearing. This cannot compare to the 6th levellers.

It is powerful, but suitable for 5th level. It allows a save, and whilst its effects are certainly unpleasant, they are not strictly deadly.