New stealth stuff from WotC

[NeoNick]

This makes playing a 4e rogue less fun than playing a 3.x rogue. In 3.x, you could at least tumble at will.

Signed! I think that changing the rogues lvl 2 Utility "Tumble" to At-will (as the lvl 2 utility Fleeting Ghost already is) WOULD solve a lot!

Rogues would definately get much more fun to play again. It's hard as hell to get behind enemy lines to flank /and to get back when needed/ - and I think rogues should have the options to be good at getting there.

 

[Xorn]

Quick reply to rejoice that this is EXACTLY how I was running Stealth already. Not because I'm psychic or anything, but because I read all the EXAMPLES of stealth being used and they all matched this application.

And getting Combat Advantage (isn't that what the complaint is here) is not hard, still.

 

[Syrsuro]

Almost feels like there should be some case for 'cannot reach any part of the interior of the target', ie not including corners and edges.

I think the answer is that there needs to be a 'common sense' rule that adds to the rules for cover: If, regardless of the number of corners visible from your square, you do not have line of sight to the target - it has superior concealment, and if, regardless of the number of corners visible from your square, you do not have line of effect - it has total cover.

Certainly for the purposes of stealth this would be true, because line of sight is really the whole point of the cover/concealment rules.

Carl

 

[Stalker0]

Signed! I think that changing the rogues lvl 2 Utility "Tumble" to At-will (as the lvl 2 utility Fleeting Ghost already is) WOULD solve a lot!

Rogues would definately get much more fun to play again. It's hard as hell to get behind enemy lines to flank /and to get back when needed/ - and I think rogues should have the options to be good at getting there.

In 4e's world of movement, being able to effectively shift half your speed all the time would be horribly broken.

Rogues are fine, they have great powers, they do craptons of damage when they do sneak attack, and they get lots of skills. Its just that now setting up a SA actually takes a bit of work. With the old stealth rules, it so easy my eladrin wizard was stealthing each round just to get CA.

 

[Eltor Macnol]

The Stealth rules aren't the only thing that has been, er, stealthily changed in the Compendium. I've checked just a couple of the stealth-related powers mentioned in this thread, and while Fleeting Ghost and Nimble Strike have remained unchanged, Shadow Stride hasn't.

Apparently, this dispels any doubt about whether or not moving through squares where you don't have any cover or concealment would reveal your position. It would.

If anyone has the time to check more of the stealth-related stuff in the compendium for other changes, please do so.

http://ww2.wizards.com/dnd/insider/power.aspx?id=1396&searchterm=shadow stride

Shadow Stride Rogue Utility 10
You silently step from shadow to shadow, slipping past your foes unseen and unheard.

At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Prerequisite: You must be trained in Stealth.

Effect: You must be hidden to use this power. You can move your speed to a space where you can remain hidden. Then make a Stealth check with no penalty for moving. If the check succeeds, you remain hidden during the movement, even if you have no cover or concealment during it.

 

[Shabe]

My draft house rules are as follows:

Partially Hidden (Stealth Trained Only): If you make a move ending behind any cover or concealment, you can make Stealth check against your enemy's passive Perception to become partially hidden. If successful, you gain a Combat Advantage against that opponent for your next attack or until the end of your turn, whichever comes first. If you are able to target multiple opponents with a single attack, compare your Stealth check against their passive Perceptions separately to see which ones you are partially hidden from and have Combat Advantage against. You can only be partially hidden from opponents against whom you have cover or concealment. For this purpose, allies do not count as cover.

That gives rogues back their offensive advantage without opening the door to the mounds of defensive cheese I objected to in the original rules. Making it trained only keeps it as special sauce for stealthy characters like rangers and rogues.

Thats exactly how i'm running stealth at the moment, if integrated with the compendium stealth. You can move like a ninja silently and stealthy like if you start totally obscured and then remain in cover, or you can use the cover / concealment you have to make you movements indistinct and get combat advantage for an attack.

The trouble is the party i'm running for doesn't use stealth, so i'm wondering if i'm just giving the monsters an unfair advantage.

Plus isn't stealth a warlock class skill? and wouldn't it help them catch up with the to hits of the melee strikers?