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Newbie avenger questions

OakwoodDM

First Post
The problem I have when playing my Avenger is that I don't get my Oath of Enmity rerolls enough. I think it was a bad design decision by WotC to make the Avenger's striker mechanic an oath that says "I hate you, and am going to hunt you to the ends of the earth".

I often find myself in fights where either:
a) These things are in the way, and they are attacking, but in no way do they deserve that level of ire, or
b) They are things like rats or ravens, where claiming to hate them is bizarre.

So what I'm saying, I suppose, is that if your group isn't so concerned with that side of the role playing of the character, or if you can reflavour (and get your DM to accept) the OoE as something more akin to the Ranger's Hunter's Quarry (You're my current target is a lot less emotional than I truly hate you), then you should get your reroll plenty enough to be an effective striker. If, however, you find yourself in my situation, you will be somewhat less effective.
 

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mneme

Explorer
ODM: You decide what oath you make. I usually just say "I swear to kill [the golem/the rat/the eladrin", but since the Avenger's oath is -supposed- to be "you are my current target", rather than "I truly feel a personal hate for you", it's important to reflavor if that's getting in your way. IMO, the Avenger is drawing down -divine- emnity on their target -- not personal emnity.
 

Obryn

Hero
Yep, it can be something as simple as, "I am an agent of my god. He will strike down any who stand in my way."

No hate or anger required, really. Just an acknowledgement that you're on a mission from God. I mean, the Blues Brothers didn't let anything stop them, did they?

-O
 

DracoSuave

First Post
There's a reason that Avengers aren't required to share the alignment of their diety:


Avengers are dicks.

Avengers are the zealots that WILL swear oaths to kill every rat, dog, and snake standing between them and their appointed duty.

You're a murderer for the gods, kept secret, because if people knew the church had guys like you, they'd turn to atheism.


Avengers. Are. Dicks.
 

There are ways to work around this. How to "not be a dick".. :) Check out my characters background:

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"Some believe that to fight evil, one must embrace its tools and methods. Such people reason that the end will justify the means, and no deed, no matter how heinous, is evil if performed in pursuit of the greater good. The Disciples of Vengeance believe this, and hold the ugly truths of the world close as they seek to stamp out wickedness and villainy wherever they can be found."

And I? I was one of them...at least then I was. Recruited at a young age, after showing great promise in various martial arts, I thought I had found my true vocation - seeking out the enemies of my God, and annihilating them honorably in single combat. I applied myself with true religious fervor to the disciplines they taught me. Through this single-minded application of my natural and learned abilities, I became known as one of the deadliest and most effective of the Disciples of Vengeances's Crusader Knights.

A zealous slayer, that's what they called me, and I wore that badge with justifiable pride. Until the day I watched the innocent die at our hands...

Summoned to a small woodlands community (whose name I shall not reveal, to
protect those involved), by the area Apostle, I was told to assassinate a local witch, one who had been practicing the foulest of the dark arts, yea, even the blackest of rituals. I tracked her down, through the misty woods which surround this area, and it took no little effort on my part to do so. This alone aroused suspicion, for she was reported not to be familiar with this area, but only having arrived recently with her dark, sorcerous arts, and a small coven of supporters. What I found though, was no coven,
no power mad priestess - but a Half-Elvish female, who though obviously having a carriage of great nobility, could none-the-less not have achieved womanhood too long before. As for the coven, they were no more than children; Human and Elvish mixed, mere waifs, none older than a handful of years. Hidden within the woods, I watched them in the glen they had apparently chosen as a place to live. A medium sized dwelling at the far end must have served as their home. The more I watched, the more I became convinced that something was surely amiss, for there was no evil here. Casting my doubts aside, I stepped into the glen, showing myself at last. My entrance caused no lack of consternation and concern among them, but then a Holy Avengers appearance often does this.

The female came forward, keeping the younger ones behind her. "Who are you
good sir, and what do you in these woods, our home?" she asked, in Common
speech. I bowed slightly, and replied in her native Elvish tongue, "I seek an evil witch, who reportedly is to be found here". A ghost of a smile seemed to cross her features as she replied, "I see I am conversing with one who is well-learned, but I know of no evil witch here". "You know of none who are performing forbidden, dark rituals then?", I asked. "None sir", she replied, "unless you count what small magicks I perform to ward evil away from our home". I smiled in reply, but dropped my hand to my Greatsword, ready to draw it instantly. Her eyes widened, but I shook my head and said, "Not you, there is someone or something in the woods".

"Indeed there is, my loyal servant!" said a voice from within the woods, and moments later, the local Apostle for the Disciples of Vengeance strode into the glen. "I see I've arrived just in time to hear this witch condemn herself out of her own mouth". "Well, you know your duty Avenger, perform it!". "Sir, I do not believe this Elvish girl to be the witch that I've been searching for", I replied. "Nonsense, you heard her confess yourself. Time is wasting, and we have other persecutions this day, so do your duty". "It
grieves me to not be able to comply, but in good conscience, I can not", I said, adamantly. "Can not...or will not?" he asked. I stood steady, letting my silence speak for me. "Very well, then I shall take things into my own hands", and clapped his hands twice. Immediately, the bushes parted, and two knights and three archers entered the glen. "Take them, kill them all, especially the traitor!", the Apostle screamed, and the archers began firing as the Knights attacked me. "I'm no traitor!", I shouted as I brought my Greatsword into play. I'd like to say that I easily handled them all but truth be known, I was sorely pressed until the Elvish girl began weaving magic of her own, setting up various wards and enchantments. I probably would have perished without her aid, but the cost was high. When the battle ended, she and I were the only survivors, and I was the only one standing. The
archers had done their work only too well, cutting down the children before turning on us. I rushed to her side, as she collapsed, a thick crossbolt shaft protruding from her chest. "Hold on!", I cried, but I could see it was not good, and my healing skills would not be sufficient for this task. "I can see it in your eyes", she gasped, "it's a mortal wound, isn't it?". I could not bring myself to answer. "My life's story isn't written yet, do not despair", she said, as she placed a pendant of obviously ancient origin in my hand. "Hold this high, and I shall use your life-force, channeled through this Pendant of Summoning, to seek aid", she explained. I did as she requested, and she began chanting in a lilting voice. It sounded like High Elvish to me, but of a dialect I was not familiar with. It was a call, a summoning, almost a yearning for a reply, to parties unknown to me. I felt the magic go through the forest, from tree to tree, bush to bush, spiraling out in concentric circles of power, seeking, always seeking a reply. "It is done" she said, as I once again kneeled by her side."Success?", I asked. "I believe so". I did what I could to ease her pain and make her comfortable, but I felt it was little enough.

I stood up, intent on securing the glen, only to realize it was now full of Woodland Elves. Fully armed Woodland Elves, obviously unsure of me. "Move carefully away from her", a commanding voice rang out. I complied, very deliberately. As archers kept arrows nocked and trained on me, others rushed to aid the Elvish girl. I was kept under armed guard for quite some time, until the eldest of the Woodland Elves approached me. "I have spoken with my niece, and she has told me you tried to defend her and the children. I thank you for that, Avenger. You have done a service to us this day, you'll find friends among the Woodland Elves. We must go now". With that, he and his party began to withdraw into the woods, carrying the Elvish girl, and the bodies of the children. Just as they entered the woods, they stopped, and one of the warriors beckoned to me. As I approached, the warrior spoke, "The Princess is still conscious and wishes to say something to you - but you must hurry". I leaned over her pale form. "I must know - why did you help us instead of obeying?". "My perception is good, I sensed no evil about you m'lady", I answered, "although I'm not sure what I'll do now". She smiled, that ghost of a smile again, "I have the gift Avenger, and I can tell you that your Life's book is far from finished either. I thank you, and I daresay our paths will cross again. Fare thee well". And with those words, they vanished, swiftly and silently into the depths of the forest.

I stood alone, disillusioned, among corpses, corpses of those I had once served with pride. How could I have been so wrong about the Disciples Of Vengeance, and for so long? Why was today any different than any other day I had served them, different than any other assignment I had under-taken? Was it just the girl and the children? Or had other events subconsciously begun to undermine my belief in them? Questions for another day perhaps, but for now, I tried my best to arrange the scene of the battle as if it had been an ambush by roving marauders. I dragged the bodies into the wood dwelling and set it ablaze. I stared into the flames for some moments, wondering if it was my future as well as the structures that I was seeing go up in smoke.

For the moment I too faded into the forest, like the Woodland Elves.

It has been some time now since those events. I do not know if my efforts at concealing what happened at the glen were successful or not. Either way, my absence from the Disciples Of Vengeance will not have gone unnoticed. I still serve my God, and I believe in my heart that I am a Champion of Good, of Lawful Order.

I have decided, I shall return home, home to the Silver Marches. I hear rumors of trouble there, and of a small company of adventurers who are answering a call, a call for Hero's to help the people.

I shall answer that call...
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Update: I did have a greatsword at that point in my characters career - now he's a twin hammer swinging, dealer of Death! :D
 
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DracoSuave

First Post
Update: I did have a greatsword at that point in my characters career - now he's a twin hammer swinging, dealer of Death! :D

1) Cool background.

2) As an aside, I'm not as much of a fan of a Twin-striking Avenger. On the one hand, yes, Twin-Strike is awesome with an Avenger. On the other-hand, you're nerfing every other power you have. And in Paragon, you're sporting a full suite of encounter powers. If twin-strike is better than any of those encounter powers, why did you select that power?
 

kilpatds

Explorer
2) As an aside, I'm not as much of a fan of a Twin-striking Avenger. On the one hand, yes, Twin-Strike is awesome with an Avenger. On the other-hand, you're nerfing every other power you have. And in Paragon, you're sporting a full suite of encounter powers. If twin-strike is better than any of those encounter powers, why did you select that power?
A minor action attack power
A power that lets me walk through walls
A power that lets me teleport the target next to the fighter.
 

1) Cool background.

2) As an aside, I'm not as much of a fan of a Twin-striking Avenger. On the one hand, yes, Twin-Strike is awesome with an Avenger. On the other-hand, you're nerfing every other power you have. And in Paragon, you're sporting a full suite of encounter powers. If twin-strike is better than any of those encounter powers, why did you select that power?

Oh - sorry for the confusion! I'm not using Twin-Strike. I'm just using 2 hammers, along with 2 weapon fighting, 2 weapon Def., and 2 weapon opening (at this point).

That's what I meant when I said this:

"Update: I did have a greatsword at that point in my characters career - now he's a twin hammer swinging, dealer of Death! "

Twin hammer as in 2 hammers - not Twin Strike. :)
 

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
Student of Caiphon has been updated since this thread. It now only works on Warlock (and Student of Caiphon) powers.
Is that from errata? In the actual Dragon Magazine Annual book, it still says that "you score a critical hit with fear and radiant powers on a roll of 18-20." :hmm:

Edit: I found it in the March 2010 Errata. Bummer. I note that the replacement text doesn't actually say what they intended it to, but the explanation makes it perfectly horribly clear.

Dragon 366
Caiphon’s Guidance, Page 24
Replace the feature’s text with the following text
“Your fear or radiant warlock powers and student of
Caiphon powers score critical hits on rolls of 18–20.”
The expanded critical range should apply to radiant
or fear powers (as opposed to powers that have
both keywords), but it should not apply to other class’
powers. This limits players from taking the paragon
just to gain the generous critical range.
 
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