newbie DM has questions

[Old But New]

I'm taking over DM'ing soon for my group. We're pretty small for the time being, only three players with one DM, and we're only on our first adventure. Another player is DM'ing us through The Slayer's Stone now, and then I'm going to do Khyer's Harvest and Keep of the Shadowfell.

I've never DM'd before, but I think I have a handle on it. I played 1e a long time ago, but have been completely out of the loop for 20+ years.

1. Are there are good adventures for two players?

I think my ten-year-old could get involved in the larger campaign, but I want to ease him in. I'm looking for something easy to run with my wife and son playing that will get him excited and keep his interest, ADD notwithstanding.

2. We have the 3 core books. Do we really need anything more right now?

We have the DMG, the PHB, and the MM. I've looked at the errata published on dndinsider for those 3 books and applied them as I think they matter. (Although I suspect this has made things less fun for our Wizard -- she liked rolling the dice for Magic Missile instead of it being an automatic hit -- so I may undo that. Especially since she has a +1 Staff now.)

(I have philosophical issues with paying a monthly subscription fee, especially as I think it just encourages them to release broken things you need the membership to fix. That's probably a separate flame war I don't want to start.)

My impression is that the later rule books introduce powers that unbalance the game, and I will need to increase the damage of monsters to compensate, but I should do both of those or neither of those. Is that right?

When I expand what I have, in what order should I do it, and what fixes do I need to take at each step?

3. Is there a free version of the Character Builder available?

I heard online that it was free for levels 1-3, but I don't see it anymore. Is that gone?

4. Various rules/RP questions:

a. Can you repeatedly search a room with Perception checks? The DMG talks about doing this after a battle, and just to assume the player rolls a 20 since they will do it eventually, barring time constraints. Would this work in normal circumstances?

b. Are thrown weapons recoverable? A character could get a +1 Javelin, but it seems silly if it goes away after battle. It also seems silly if no one could grab it and run off with it while lying on the ground.

c. What is a party of Good characters supposed to do with a captured enemy after questioning him?

 

[GameDoc]

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to the other side of the DM screen.

1. Are there are good adventures for two players?

I haven't seen any published ones that wouldn't require re-tooling. Pretty much everything out there is designed for 5 players (not including the DM). You have to go in and reduce the number or weaken the strenght of the monsters and ensure there aren't any barriers that require a skill unpossessed by one of the players.

For your son, I would stick with the basic four classes: Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, and Wizard. I would ask him what type of character he wants to play (maybe he as a hero in mind, like Harry Potter, Batman, etc.) and then build a character for him that comes closest to that. I would suggest giving him his powers on cards so he can easily discard expended encoutner and daily powers. Let him learn the mechanics of running a character before complicating the experience with having to build one.

2. We have the 3 core books. Do we really need anything more right now? When I expand what I have, in what order should I do it, and what fixes do I need to take at each step?

That's all you need. But if you feel tracking the errata is too unweildy, I would suggest getting a copy of the Rules Compendium. It has all the 4e rules updated and corrected for the errata. I use that at the table and only crack the DM books when I am buidling encounters.

I would also suggest the Essential's DM's Book on the short list to add. Again, it has the errata built in and rules on how to build encounters, award XP, and dole out treasure.

3. Is there a free version of the Character Builder available?

Not from WotC. If you want something free you might try this:

Javascript Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition Character Generator

I haven't used it in a while, but the author is constantly updating and correcting it and is easily emailed if you spot a bug.

4. Various rules/RP questions:

a. Can you repeatedly search a room with Perception checks? The DMG talks about doing this after a battle, and just to assume the player rolls a 20 since they will do it eventually, barring time constraints. Would this work in normal circumstances?

b. Are thrown weapons recoverable? A character could get a +1 Javelin, but it seems silly if it goes away after battle. It also seems silly if no one could grab it and run off with it while lying on the ground.

c. What is a party of Good characters supposed to do with a captured enemy after questioning him?

a. I will defer to more seasoned rules lawyers ont that one.

b. Any magical thrown weapon automatically returns the the thrower at the end of the round. The rules don't really speak to recoving non-magical ones, but I have always assumed yes, unless it's totally illogical (well when you threw your javelin at that gnoll standing on the edge of the cliff overlooking the lake, you missed. The javelin saild over it's head and into the deep, deep water.)

c. Depends on the party or the characters. There have been long debates about this going back to 1st edition, and others may take a different stance than me. My stance has always been that in a dark and brooding medeival world, even good people will execute villains, particularly monsters who don't really count as "people."

And characters of the same alignment don't even have to agree on that. You can have two good characters, one who wants to spare a captured villain and turn him over to the local magistrate, and the other who sees that there is ample proof of the villain's guilt and feels its okay to put him down in the name of justice on the spot. I gues what I am saying that as a DM, I would not rule the latter character has violated his good alignment.

 

[malraux]

2. We have the 3 core books. Do we really need anything more right now?

We have the DMG, the PHB, and the MM. I've looked at the errata published on dndinsider for those 3 books and applied them as I think they matter. (Although I suspect this has made things less fun for our Wizard -- she liked rolling the dice for Magic Missile instead of it being an automatic hit -- so I may undo that. Especially since she has a +1 Staff now.)

(I have philosophical issues with paying a monthly subscription fee, especially as I think it just encourages them to release broken things you need the membership to fix. That's probably a separate flame war I don't want to start.)

My impression is that the later rule books introduce powers that unbalance the game, and I will need to increase the damage of monsters to compensate, but I should do both of those or neither of those. Is that right?

When I expand what I have, in what order should I do it, and what fixes do I need to take at each step?

FWIW, WotC is pretty good about making the fixes to broken things free. That is, the rules update is not part of DDI.

All that said, DDI is a pretty good value, as it gives you access to the mechanical info from all the books. I'd still put a trial of it as a good idea to purchase.

Aside from that, at least one of the Adventurer Vaults really compliments the 3 core books, because it adds quite a large number of magical items. That's the only "must have" purchase. Everything else is pretty much based on what sounds good to you. Want more classes, then pick up PHB 2 and 3. Want more options for the wizard, then grab Arcane Power. The books are pretty modular in that regard.

3. Is there a free version of the Character Builder available?

I heard online that it was free for levels 1-3, but I don't see it anymore. Is that gone?

Currently, yes.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Welcome to the forums Old but New. Glad to see you are coming back to gaming after the 20-year hiatus.

1. Are there are good adventures for two players?

I agree with GameDoc on this one, most of the published adventures out there are for bigger groups. So this would take some tweaking to scale down to 2 people.

Though I would recommend the new Red Box, you can do that with your wife and kid, it's for 1-5 players I believe and age appropriate for your son and easy enough to get a grasp on for people who've never played before.

2. We have the 3 core books. Do we really need anything more right now? When I expand what I have, in what order should I do it, and what fixes do I need to take at each step?

Again, I agree with GameDoc on this. I have the Rules Compendium and LOVE it. It's a quick & easy reference for all the rules.

3. Is there a free version of the Character Builder available?

GameDoc gave you one that looks pretty good, but the days of the Character Builder from WOTC being a downloaded program are gone, so is the level 1-3 thing you speak of. There are a few nice excel spreadsheets and whatnot out there by some gamers for character sheets if that's what you are looking for. I'd just Google "4E Excel Character Sheet" to find them.

4. Various rules/RP questions:

a. Can you repeatedly search a room with Perception checks? The DMG talks about doing this after a battle, and just to assume the player rolls a 20 since they will do it eventually, barring time constraints. Would this work in normal circumstances?

I'd say that you can look in different places in the room and be very specific about where you are searching. You couldn't look at the same wall 20x trying to find something, unless you KNOW for certain something is there (i.e. a map pointing to that exact spot). Once you've looked at it and tried to find any secret door or latch and can't do so, it's a failed attempt at that point and move on to the other areas.

b. Are thrown weapons recoverable? A character could get a +1 Javelin, but it seems silly if it goes away after battle. It also seems silly if no one could grab it and run off with it while lying on the ground.

Yes, GameDoc covered this very well in his explanation.

c. What is a party of Good characters supposed to do with a captured enemy after questioning him?

This is a pretty varied answer depending on who you talk to. As a DM, I'd leave it up to the characters to role play it out themselves. If they are ALL good, they better not just slit the captured enemy's throat and leave him there because that's evil in my mind and I'd make it come back to haunt the group in some way, shape, or form. Felling enemies in battle is one thing, slitting the throat of one that is tied is another. I'm sure most groups would either let him go with a stern warning to right his ways while taking his weapons and armor, dropping him off at a local magistrate for trial, or some other type of punishment they could enact on him that they think is fair and appropriate.

 

[ChristianLindke]

There is no "hard and fast" rule regarding re-rolling perception checks, but there are some issues to consider. Keep in mind that "narratively" the character doesn't know if a player rolled well or not, only whether they found something or not. Metagaming can lead to excessive re-rolling, which shouldn't really be an issue if you are using the updated DCs for skill checks/challenges updated by level anyway.

To decrease the impulse by your players to roll again and again on perception checks, I recommend the following choices.

1) Roll perception checks for the players and let them know the narrative results, but not the die results. That way, if they want to search they are doing so with the same information that the characters would have.
2) You could let them roll openly and treat all room searches as complexity 1 or 2 skill challenges. This can give them the feel of the experience without bogging the game down too much.
3) Pay attention to those DCs on search checks. If you have someone with a decent Wis who is trained in Perception, they should find most hidden things -- within their level range -- with merely their passive perception.
4) Use perception checks only for actively opposed competitions. Games like the GUMSHOE line recommend guaranteeing that the players get the information that they "need" from any search and don't use success/failure on rolls.
5) Following on the last, assign a number of "searches" that a character can be successful on in an adventure based on their perception skill. Keep in mind that there are 8 encounters per character level and limit the number of searches based on that criteria.

Those are just some ideas.

Christian

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

There is no "hard and fast" rule regarding re-rolling perception checks, but there are some issues to consider. Keep in mind that "narratively" the character doesn't know if a player rolled well or not, only whether they found something or not. Metagaming can lead to excessive re-rolling, which shouldn't really be an issue if you are using the updated DCs for skill checks/challenges updated by level anyway.

To decrease the impulse by your players to roll again and again on perception checks, I recommend the following choices.

1) Roll perception checks for the players and let them know the narrative results, but not the die results. That way, if they want to search they are doing so with the same information that the characters would have.
2) You could let them roll openly and treat all room searches as complexity 1 or 2 skill challenges. This can give them the feel of the experience without bogging the game down too much.
3) Pay attention to those DCs on search checks. If you have someone with a decent Wis who is trained in Perception, they should find most hidden things -- within their level range -- with merely their passive perception.
4) Use perception checks only for actively opposed competitions. Games like the GUMSHOE line recommend guaranteeing that the players get the information that they "need" from any search and don't use success/failure on rolls.
5) Following on the last, assign a number of "searches" that a character can be successful on in an adventure based on their perception skill. Keep in mind that there are 8 encounters per character level and limit the number of searches based on that criteria.

Those are just some ideas.

Christian

Good ideas here, but I always feel it is up to the DM to rule on things like this. Use your own discretion and don't hold strictly to the RAW if you don't feel they are perfect. The only thing you really need to do is have fun not get bogged down with a bunch of challenges, rules, or arguments. Make a decision that you believe is fair, and move on with the game.

 

[mudlock]

I've read through Kyber's Harvest, and it seems like a great little self-contained module. I've run Keep on the Shadowfell more than once, but I am much less impressed with it. (To be fair, it was the first module, so there was a lot of things they were still figuring out. The lowlights: Watch out for the Kobold warren; good chance of a total party kill there! The treasure awarded is well below the recommended guidelines. Once you get to the keep itself, there are, I feel, more encounters than are necessary to move the story along. The Trap Room is lame (and ignores the guideline of "never have an encounter that's just traps.) The few (one?) skill challenge is kinda weaksauce.)

But as for your actual questions:

2. The original core books are a perfectly capable game system, and, you DO NOT have to subscribe to DDI for the rules updates. They live here:

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Official D&D Updates)

And yes, some numerical tweaks were made to monsters; details ar in the rules updates (I believe?) But at low-level, they don't really matter, so I wouldn't worry about it to much. But if you stick with it, the Monster Vault is, IMHO, AWESOME. Not because it has the improved numbers, but because the STYLE is so much better. If you compare how MM wraiths play to how MV wraiths play, you'll see what I mean. And even more so with dragons!

 

[jbear]

I'm taking over DM'ing soon for my group. We're pretty small for the time being, only three players with one DM, and we're only on our first adventure. Another player is DM'ing us through The Slayer's Stone now, and then I'm going to do Khyer's Harvest and Keep of the Shadowfell.

I've never DM'd before, but I think I have a handle on it. I played 1e a long time ago, but have been completely out of the loop for 20+ years.

1. Are there are good adventures for two players?

I think my ten-year-old could get involved in the larger campaign, but I want to ease him in. I'm looking for something easy to run with my wife and son playing that will get him excited and keep his interest, ADD notwithstanding.

I don't know of any adventures designed for only 2 PCs. My recommendation would be to have each player run a main PC with a companion character. Rules for companion characters is in the DMG2 unfortunately which you don't have access to. But basically it is fairly similar to having them run a character with the complexity of a monster. For example each of them could have a Grey Wolf companion. Basically reskin any monster of the same level (except a minion) to your liking and you have a companion character. Extremely simple for your players to run and it means you can nearly run those adventures you mentioned as is. I'm sure someone here on the boards will be able to help you when it comes time to levelling up the companion character if you don't want to get the DMG2 or a subscription which will give you access to the monster builder (fantastic tool)
.

2. We have the 3 core books. Do we really need anything more right now?

Need? I don't think so. Buy books only on a 'want to' basis. Monster Vault is a very good investment. It comes with a double sided poster map, a 4th level adventure and 12 sheets of gorgeous monster tokens of all sizes, as well as very well designed, stream lined, hard hitting monsters accompanied by some very good descriptions. That would be the first thing on my list if I was you.

We have the DMG, the PHB, and the MM. I've looked at the errata published on dndinsider for those 3 books and applied them as I think they matter. (Although I suspect this has made things less fun for our Wizard -- she liked rolling the dice for Magic Missile instead of it being an automatic hit -- so I may undo that. Especially since she has a +1 Staff now.)

My impression is that the later rule books introduce powers that unbalance the game, and I will need to increase the damage of monsters to compensate, but I should do both of those or neither of those. Is that right?

Monster Damage is a major change which affects the game in a major way. This may be a difficult decision for you with only 2 pcs. At low levels you won't notice it so acutely. By 5th level the difference is increasingly more apparant.

This increase has added a faster, more brutal dynamic to combat. Having the
limitation of PHB only classes some of those in there like the paladin will lag behind others. The paladin came into its own with the release of Divine Power. Others might say the same about the warlock and the possibly the wizard. You'll still be able to build perfectly functional characters. Many of the best options available to these classes remain in the PHB. I don't know. Your call. There are other ways to avoid grindy combat than increasing monster damage.

When I expand what I have, in what order should I do it, and what fixes do I need to take at each step?

I would expand according to your player's classes. If you have a fighter, get Martial Power. If you have a cleric, get Divine Power. The errata as it stands available for each book corrects most of the issues you will ever come across.
As for DM material ... where do you want your campaign to go after running the adventure modules you have?

4. Various rules/RP questions:

a. Can you repeatedly search a room with Perception checks? The DMG talks about doing this after a battle, and just to assume the player rolls a 20 since they will do it eventually, barring time constraints. Would this work in normal circumstances?

Yes. But having your players saying I search again until they find something is not much fun for anyone. I am learning to deal with perception myself. What I am beginning to learn is that its more fun to have players find stuff but not know exactly what it is they have found as opposed to just hiding stuff and not revealing it because they didn't roll high enough. This requires however a very sharp imagination or very extensive pre-planning. Pre-made modules might be limited in this way, so you may want to work on them as though they were a base for you to build your own ideas upon.

b. Are thrown weapons recoverable? A character could get a +1 Javelin, but it seems silly if it goes away after battle. It also seems silly if no one could grab it and run off with it while lying on the ground.

Yes javelins are recoverable. Magical Javelins actually fly back into the thrower's hand. So you don't even have to pick them back up off the floor. Hopefully though if you've thrown them, they'll be sticking out of the enemy, not on the floor

c. What is a party of Good characters supposed to do with a captured enemy after questioning him?

I think that depends on you. Are you going to penalise them for releasing him by having him come back to bite them on the arse? If you do, they will be forced to take measure to make sure that doesn't happen. How about a quick and painless death? Tied up until the adventure is over and then released? Tied up and pushed in front of them with a pole to set off traps? Hehehe ... Anyway, the players will have to decide that. And they will probably do that based on the consequences of the last time they did it.

 

[OnlineDM]

I would say that you can have years of gaming fun with the three books you have. Other books are lovely, yes, but you don't have to have them.

Had you been asking the question, "I'm getting started in D&D 4e now; what books do I need to get?" I would have recommended the Essentials books (specifically Heroes of the Fallen Lands, the Dungeon Master's Kit and the Monster Vault). I think those provide a better introduction to D&D 4e, and the monsters in the Monster Vault are improved versions of the Monster Manual versions, in my opinion.

All that said, you can have a blast with the books that you have. I expect that WotC will make a demo version of their new online Character Builder available in the future, probably letting people build a limited set of characters of level 1-3. Until then, pen and paper work just fine, as you've no doubt seen!

 

[Destil]

2. We have the 3 core books. Do we really need anything more right now?

Nope. All the other books are just more options. As the DM you may get some use out of the other MMs and DMG2. The PHB2-3 and essentials are just more stuff for new characters and a few options for old ones, not necessary.

We have the DMG, the PHB, and the MM. I've looked at the errata published on dndinsider for those 3 books and applied them as I think they matter. (Although I suspect this has made things less fun for our Wizard -- she liked rolling the dice for Magic Missile instead of it being an automatic hit -- so I may undo that. Especially since she has a +1 Staff now.)

Do it. The new magic missile is terrible, and this is why.

b. Are thrown weapons recoverable? A character could get a +1 Javelin, but it seems silly if it goes away after battle. It also seems silly if no one could grab it and run off with it while lying on the ground.

Yes, generally. Magic thrown weapons automatically return to the thrower, though, so no need to worry.