Newbie DM question: how much to reveal about the monsters?

[draquila]

Hi, I've recently gotten myself a copy of the D&D 4E starter pack. I've never played or DM'ed a game before and I'm planning to try out the short starter adventure in the pack with a few friends. I feel that the booklets provided are really short on the details of how an actual game runs!

As the DM how much do I tell players about the monsters they're facing? "Here is a goblin blackblade, it has 25 HP and it can shift one square when missed by an attack...", or do I simply describe, "you see a short ugly humanoid lurking in the shadows," which makes a lot more role-playing sense but then how do I explain the abilities when I suddenly use them? And it seems really hard on the players not to know the stats and abilities beforehand... or is that part of the challenge of the game?

 

[wedgeski]

Welcome to DM'ing!

It certainly is part of the game for the players to have their PC's adapt to the abilities of the creatures they face. As they start facing similar foes, they might get a feel for what to expect; for example, they will expect most kobold enemies to be slippery little buggers. In general though, "He can do WHAT?!" just makes for a more exciting game.

On the other hand, "Monster Knowledge Checks" are provided to allow your players to use their Religion, Arcana, and perhaps other skills to discern certain information. Check your rule-books for that. I find that these rules tend to reveal a little too much information for my liking, and my players agree.

 

[Nifft]

Unless the monster's race is deliberately hidden -- like it's a Drow scout wearing a heavy hood, through which you can see pointed ears under the fabric, but not make out any facial features -- then just go ahead and tell them the race.

Regarding HP, 4e has the built-in "Bloodied" mechanic to give players an indication of how tough the rest of the fight will be. Absolutely do tell them when they've Bloodied a critter, and IMHO don't otherwise tell them HP totals.

I'm a fan of saying the critter's power names when using its powers, especially if I can work it into a sentence describing that power.

Minions are a special problem for some people. I just flat-out tell the players which critters are minions.

I also tell a player when his character's attack is modified by a critter's powers or resistances or vulnerabilities... and usually NOT before.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zaran]

I'll give them hints like "This goblin seems to be quite nimble but doesn't seem like his little body could take much strain" so they can figure out that maybe vs Reflex attacks aren't the best idea.

I don't tell them any stats but I'll tell them what the creature is if it's a pretty common site. Also, I'll have them roll a skill check. No matter what they role I'll give them basic info. If they roll high i'll give them something of more use like Vulnerabilities or resistances. I also declare that some classes like Clerics would know more about undead than say Rogues. Or wizards might know about things like demons without a skill check. I never tell them about a particular power until I hit them with it. That way if they see it again they'll go "Oh, those are the things that can kick me in the head through a shadow!"

One of my player's is a GM as well so I'll alter some of my monsters so that they don't always know exactly what they can do.

 

[Solvarn]

Creatures

This is basically the only thing I really dislike a great deal about 4th Edition. I don't like it when play grinds to a halt as the DM reads off a laundry list of powers that only some people are even paying attention to.

 

[Gort]

This is basically the only thing I really dislike a great deal about 4th Edition. I don't like it when play grinds to a halt as the DM reads off a laundry list of powers that only some people are even paying attention to.

Then why do it? I only tell players about monster powers when the monster uses them. "Oh, you missed the goblin, he uses a power that lets him shift a square. There we go."

No play grinding to a halt or anything. I'll paraphrase the history entries for monsters if someone makes a check, but that's their choice.

 

[Solvarn]

Then why do it? I only tell players about monster powers when the monster uses them. "Oh, you missed the goblin, he uses a power that lets him shift a square. There we go."

No play grinding to a halt or anything. I'll paraphrase the history entries for monsters if someone makes a check, but that's their choice.

Yeah, my 4E DMing experience is limited to RPGA, where I need to go by the book, so to speak. I hope to do a campaign later this year, and I think the approach I'll be taking is describing the traits of the creatures in general, but not going into specifics.

i.e. You know the medusa has a gaze attack that petrifies, and the snakes on the head are rumored to be poisonous. I won't go into specifics about what their power can do.

I just wish that this particular rule had followed the intention of what they were trying to do with 4th Edition.

 

[Verdande]

I don't have much experience with 4th edition, but this is really a timeless question.

You should describe only that which the characters could know. They'll certainly know that the creatures are goblins, unless goblins are rare creatures in your world. If it's tall and grim and covered in scarred fur and has long, lanky arms that reach almost to its feet, then tell them that. Don't tell them that it's a "Murk Troll Ambusher" or whatever the silly name it has in the book.

Similarly, you only tell the players the abilties that it uses, and not the name unless you really want to. If the troll in the above example has a "Fearsome Grab" ability that it gets to use, and you roll x dice and it does x damage, don't tell them the mechanics and how often it can use it and the range and whatnot. Tell them that the damn troll's grabbing them and what it does.

That's the motto here: Show, don't tell. You can sit and read out the stats line by line, which is boring, or you can make up what it looks like and the horrible shredded skin it wears on its head or whatever, and give your players an awesome experience.

My players can't remember how much hit points they had or what in the world they roll when they're casting Pneumonia Blast IV, but they all remember the Plague Orc (from the module I'm creating, no less) that used its intestines as a weapon.


And yes, it's part of the challenge. 4th edition tends not to be nearly as good about it, but a large part of the game is challenging the players, through their characters, to succeed and prosper. Telling the players what the Burbling Demonspawn Acolyte has for its powers and its hit points total is no different than telling the players exactly where the traps are in a corridor and who's behind the horrible plot to turn the villagers into jello. Keeping the players in the dark makes it harder, more unpredictable, exciting, and fun, and I have the exact same inclinations when I'm a player.

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

I typically tell them what the monsters are pretty readily, although in the case of more obscure monsters I might describe them and then give the players a name if they make the appropriate skill check.

I never give a laundry list of powers off the bat, but I will give them info on the powers when they affect the PCs. So when my PCs fought kenku recently, I told the PCs the first time they were attacked from a flanking position "the kenku get more than the normal flanking bonus." And when one of the skirmisher kenkus hit with combat advantage, I said "it does extra damage because it has combat advantage." That lets the players know what they need to respond to tactically, but still lets the monsters produce a bit of a surprise and "uh-oh, we need to neutralize that" moment.

But I do think that getting the balance right is a matter of taste and experience, so I would try a couple of different levels of disclosure and see what seems the most fun.

 

[Festivus]

One of the aspects of DMing I like most is describing the monsters physical appearance to the players. If they want to know things like role, or abilities, that's a skill check (See PHB page 180). Basically: Name, Type and Keywords is one, Powers is another, and Resistances and vulnerabilities is yet another. Your starter kit isn't really going to cover this. Hmm, is the table in the errata? Why, yes it is: Check the table on page 48 of this document:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatePH.pdf

I usually only have them do the skill check if they ask for more details about the short green humanoid creature with pointy ears and a dagger dripping with some sort of liquid.