Ninja: Ki Controllers

[SpydersWebbing]

Alright, I was thinking, and just to see if how it would work I made up the basic stuff for a Ninja class. I haven't gotten very far, but I was wanting some feedback.

Ninja:
Role: Controller. You affect large groups of foes all at once.
HP: 10+Constitution
HP Gained: 4
Surges a Day:6+Con Modifier
Abilities: Charisma, Wisdom, and Dexterity.
Defenses: +1 AC, Reflex, and Will
Armor: Cloth
Weapons: Shuriken, Ninja Sword (detailed below), Short sword, Kutar knife, Nunchaku (detailed below), and crossbows.
Skills: Stealth and Thievery. From the class list below choose four more trained skills.
Arcana, Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Dungeoneering, Insight, Intimidate, Perception, and Streetwise

Ninja sword: Superior Weapon. +3, 1d6 Versatile. Slashing damage
Nunchaku: Superior Weapon. +3 1d6 High Crit. Blunt damage

All shuriken deal damage as if they were one size larger.

All Ninja gain these class features:

Smoke Bomb
Encounter, Ki, Personal
Standard Action Close Burst 5
Effect: All creatures within the area gain concealment except to you, granting combat advantage. This lasts until the beginning of your next turn.

Sudden Strike: Once per round, whenever a foe grants you combat advantage you deal extra damage to him, based on this "table". You may only apply this class feature to one foe in a single attack, regardless of the number of targets.

1-10 1d6
11-20 2d6
21-30 3d6

Uncatchable: You may add your Wisdom or your Charisma modifier as a miscellaneous bonus to your AC in addition to your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier.

You may choose one of two of the following class features:

Menacing Terror: Whenever a target grants you combat advantage you gain a bonus equal to your Charisma Modifier or +2, whichever is higher.

Quick Shadow: Whenever you hit an opponent who grants you combat advantage you may teleport a number of squares equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

At Will Powers:

Whirlinng Blades
Using your training you twist about in a circle, lashing out with your weapons at your foes
At Will, Ki, Weapon
Standard Action Close Burst 1
Targets: Each creature in burst.
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[w]+Dexterity modifier damage, and the targets shift one square.


Intimidating Strike
You hiss at your opponent. He moves away from you as you jerk at him, regardless of the consequences.
At Will, Ki, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: The target moves your Charisma Modifier in squares. If he's hit by an attack of oppurtunity he stops his movement.

Mysterious Jaunt
When you hit your opponent, he takes his concentration off of you for a moment. But when he looks back you're already gone.
At Will, Ki, Weapon, Teleportation
Standard Melee Weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[w]+Wisdom Modifier damage, and you can teleport two squares.


Pinning Strike
You hit your opponent in his leg, giving him trouble when it comes to moving.
At Will
Standard, Ki, Weapon
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[w]+Dexterity Modifier damage, and the target is slowed.

Encounter Powers

Crippling Strike
Encounter, Ki, Weapon
Standard Action Melee Weapon
Target:One Creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 1[w]+Dexterity Modifier damage, the target is weakened, and you may shift two squares.
Quick Shadow: You may shift a number of squares equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Sharp Stakes
You smile with a menacing grin. It's the last thing your opponents see.
Encounter, Ki, Implement (?)
Standard Action Area Burst 1 Within 10 Squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d8+Wisdom modifier damage, and the target is immobilized.
Effect: The power's area is difficult terrain until the end of your next turn.
Menacing Terror: The power's area is difficult terrain for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom Modifier.

Tornado of Death
As your foes close in around you you hurl yourself at them, letting the force of your own personality frighten your foes into submission. No one is safe.
Encounter, Ki, Weapon
Standard Close Burst 5
Target: Each foe in burst.
Attack: Charisma vs. AC
Hit: 1[w]+Charisma modifier damage, and the target takes a -2 penalty to all his attack rolls.
Menacing Terror: The target's penalty to his rolls is equal your Charisma Modifier.

 

[generalhenry]

-_-

... ninjas are strikers.

melee controller = fail



WHY?!!??


KHAN!!!!!!

 

[SpydersWebbing]

I respectfully disagree. I have a few reasons why.

A) I have never seen ninjas take on fewer than three people. They're trained to take on as many people as needed, hence the whirling strikes and the other stuff.

B) A melee controller class is NOT equal to fail. Did you read anything I put up there? They get some pretty impressive bonuses to their AC (+1 for Class, which does not happen, +Wis/Cha mod in addition to everything else?), along with movement capabilities that let them get away when they get too hurt. If the class is played as intended they won't be sitting still long enough to get hurt. And besides, the targets will have too much on their hands as it is.

Exhibit A
The Quick Shadow class feature allows them to get the heck out of there. Since in that bulid your Wisdom needs to be at least an 18 you're teleporting at least 4 squares every time you hit someone who grants you combat advantage. So hide behind your big buddy, the fighter! Then pop out again.

Exhibit B
Intimidating Strike. Read it again. I said that the target MOVES. Not push, pull, slide, shift, none of that is mentioned and it's on purpose. The idea is that the target is willing to walk through every single attack of oppurtunity than face you. If you set it up right the target can walk through as many as four attacks of oppurtunity at once.

Exhibit C
Smoke Bomb. You're not blinded by it, but everyone else is. This lets you get away, and heal up.

If anything, a melee controller is incredibly dangerous to the targets. Just play to your role and nothing bad should happen to you.

 

[jaldaen]

Although a melee controller is much more difficult to pull off I don't think it is possible, however I do have a few suggestions:

Use the hp/level and surges of the wizard. One of the important aspects of a controller type is their "glass jaw" style... they trade multi-target attacks for defense (i.e. hp). In return they gain one extra damage die* to their multi-target attacks when compared to other classes, although they usually trade in the extra die for some condition effect (daze, immobilized, knocked prone, etc.) SO essentially if you bump up their hp, then you'll need to drop the extra damage die controllers get.

Also on average each class gets about 13 effective feats worth of class features (including hps, surges, prof, skills, and features). Note that class powers and scaling effects usually count for 2 effective feats.

I'd drop the sneak attack b/c it is a striker feature. Controllers already get 1 extra damage die trade on multiple enemy attacks (which as I said before are traded in for a status effect)

You don't give an area of effect for the smoke bomb and is oddly worded.

For your at will powers you need to increase their power to reflect the advantage of the Controller over other classes.

Whirling Blades as written would be fine for a non-controller class, but as a controller you have an extra damage die you should be trading in for a status effect. Perhaps push the targets your Wisdom mod away from you.

Intimidating Strike is fine, but you should add the cleric's cuase fear clauses.

Mysterious jaunt should not depend on the build options (like Quick Shaodw). It should just be based off of the ability. Only encounter powers are affected by builds.

Pinning Srike should do a bit more, especially as a one creature melee controller attack.

I've got to go so I hope these comments help

*Note: the extra damage die is easy to spot when you look at the encounter/daily powers, but is also there in the at-wills, just less so perhaps one-half a damage die.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

Fixed some of the stuff, added skills, surges, and an encounter power. If you can't tell this is going to be more of a melee wizard-ish feel. I'll just keep editing the beginning post, and posting the updates to "bump" the thread.

Lemme know what you think!

 

[generalhenry]

A) I have never seen ninjas take on fewer than three people. They're trained to take on as many people as needed, hence the whirling strikes and the other stuff.

you don't have to be a controller to beat up minions. Wizards can't solo multiple foes any better than warlocks can.

B) A melee controller class is NOT equal to fail. Did you read anything I put up there? They get some pretty impressive bonuses to their AC (+1 for Class, which does not happen, +Wis/Cha mod in addition to everything else?), along with movement capabilities that let them get away when they get too hurt. If the class is played as intended they won't be sitting still long enough to get hurt. And besides, the targets will have too much on their hands as it is.

AC is a defender trait. And your AC ability allows for MUCH higher AC than a fighter.

Exhibit A
The Quick Shadow class feature allows them to get the heck out of there. Since in that bulid your Wisdom needs to be at least an 18 you're teleporting at least 4 squares every time you hit someone who grants you combat advantage. So hide behind your big buddy, the fighter! Then pop out again.

That's a Striker trait

Exhibit B
Intimidating Strike. Read it again. I said that the target MOVES. Not push, pull, slide, shift, none of that is mentioned and it's on purpose. The idea is that the target is willing to walk through every single attack of oppurtunity than face you. If you set it up right the target can walk through as many as four attacks of opportunity at once.

that's over powered for an at will, it's a powerful at will even with out the move effect. Attacking will with a weapon for full damage is very strong.

Exhibit C
Smoke Bomb. You're not blinded by it, but everyone else is. This lets you get away, and heal up.

A. If it's to get away, why bother letting the ninja attack through it?
B. Class abilities shouldn't require ammo.

If anything, a melee controller is incredibly dangerous to the targets. Just play to your role and nothing bad should happen to you.

-_- so... make the class over powered and everything's fine?

I'd drop the sneak attack b/c it is a striker feature.

I'd build ninja as strikers. Though I'd even then I still wouldn't give them sneak attack, class traits should never be directly copied.

You don't give an area of effect for the smoke bomb and is oddly worded.

Nor a duration.







And to reiterate. No, ninjas are not controllers. Controllers are inherently ranged, just like defenders are inherently melee.

Even if that wasn't the case ninjas are strikers. Mobile and deadly.


and to finish "Slashing damage" doesn't exist in 4E. Learn the system before you try to design classes.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

you don't have to be a controller to beat up minions. Wizards can't solo multiple foes any better than warlocks can.

Yes they can, that's what they're designed for. Take a look at the Wizard's powers, especially the ones that redesign terrain. Those are meant for one thing and one thing only: affecting multiple people. Controller! Seems to fit the role to me.

AC is a defender trait. And your AC ability allows for MUCH higher AC than a fighter.

Only because of the extremely low hit points. A fighter, ranger, heck, even a rogue if they get hit once they're probably gonna be fine. Not the case here. Especially considering where the ninja is designed to be, which in the midst of combat.

That's a Striker trait

And the paladin has leader traits,and the fighter has controller traits. Point?

that's over powered for an at will, it's a powerful at will even with out the move effect. Attacking will with a weapon for full damage is very strong.

Then I'll fix it. That's why I put it up here, was to see what people thought. Not for a full blasted "your work sucks" talk from someone. I know my work needed tweaking, which is why it's here. Have the decency to give me at least that.

A. If it's to get away, why bother letting the ninja attack through it?
B. Class abilities shouldn't require ammo.

So that way if he hasn't used it yet in the combat and if he has the oppurtunity to finish off someone he has the option. It's an option, not a requirement.

B) Go tell that to the ranger. And who said this thing needed ammo? It's assumed that the ninja has enough smoke bombs to use one once during an encounter.

-_- so... make the class over powered and everything's fine?

Again with the "that's why it's up here, to TWEAK" bit.

And to reiterate. No, ninjas are not controllers. Controllers are inherently ranged, just like defenders are inherently melee.

The defender bit I'll agree with. Controller? Not so much. I still haven't seen substantial evidence that says otherwise. All I've seen is alot of people shooting off at the mouth without a good argument.

Granted, your critiques are good. But maybe you should pull the venom out of your mouth first.

As for the slashing damage thing: nitpicking does not make you look cool. Or intelligent. Just angry.

Cool down.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

There, fixed some of the stuff brought up by the gentleman with the hot head. Thanks for your comments. I'll have some new stuff up tomorrow or the day after, we'll see how work and DMing treat me.

 

[SpydersWebbing]

Added an encounter power, something just kinda came to me.

I should have posted this when I first started this thread.

THIS IS WHAT I MEAN BY NINJA: PRIMARILY MELEE WARRIORS OF WHO SET UP THE BATTLEFIELD IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY HAVE THE ADVANTAGE.

The above is not me shouting. The above is me putting it in all caps just in case it's glossed over. That definition is the definition that I've grown up with and that I've come to glean from what I"ve read of their tactics.

If you want a sneak up and shank, you're looking for a rogue. If you're looking for field mastery, look for a ninja.

 

[jackston2]

Ninja: Naruto style*
Ki Controller

At Will: Ki Damage Strike
At Will: Distracting Kick
Per Encounter: Illusionary double
Per Encounter: Rain of Shuriken
Once Per Day: Summon Tiger Demon's Flame



*Disclaimer: I know very little about Naruto, so i'm going to make up stuff