No AoO...?

[arnon]

I'm about to run a short Skull & Bones (swashbuckling pirates) campaign, and I've been thinking that to make the fights more "swashbuckling-y", partially removing AoO will be the way to go. By partially i mean that shooting\casting spells\going through your pockets during melee still provokes AoO.

I know several system have done that, but i don't really know how it affects the game. And i know some feats (and maybe some class features) will have to be removed or re-thought.

Anybody got experience with this?

 

[ValhallaGH]

I've seen two approaches to this issue.

First, simplify AoOs. The example I'm familiar with has two requirements.

• Is it a standard or full-round action other than melee attacks?
• Did a character move more than 1/4 their speed through threatened squares?

If either of the above is yes then an AoO is provoked. Characters can attempt to not provoke when they normally would, such as by tumbling or jumping or something else. Trips, disarms, rushes and sunders were all explicitly made into standard actions.

Second, remove AoOs. Completely take them out. Characters can perform almost any action and will never provoke for it. The only "down side" is that it makes it far more difficult for one character to block a fifteen foot wide hallway; honestly, this doesn't bother me because I can't recall the last time anyone in fiction or myth single-handedly blocked a fifteen foot wide path.

I hope you find the above useful as you go forth.

 

[Flynn]

Spycraft got rid of all AOOs and I've not heard of any issues in those regards. It might be a good source for checking out modifications that have been done to remove them. I've written my own streamlined version of the combat system without them, inspired by True20 (which also may not have AOOs, I can't remember). Take the SRD feats section, do a search through for AOOs and remove the reference from the feats that mention them. That's a good place to start to see the impact of removing them from the system.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Hawken]

I think this may be the same for True20, but I've mostly removed them from my game and my players have so far been happy with the results. In my games, there are only two things that provoke an AoO:

1) Making a ranged attack while threatened by a melee opponent.
2) Casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 standard or move action. (I use the Revised Elements of Magic, so spells either take 1 standard action or 2 full rounds to cast).

It has simplified a lot of things as far as combat goes. I've had to adjust the Tumble skill a little because of the rarity of AoOs now, and some feats have to be adjusted (Mobility, etc.) or rewritten, but other than that, it's been smooth sailing thus far.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I think this may be the same for True20, but I've mostly removed them from my game and my players have so far been happy with the results. In my games, there are only two things that provoke an AoO:

Naw. True20 simply deleted attack of opportunity entirely. I think they were going with the theory that Readied attacks would work just as well; also that confusion of AoOs slows down many (not all, just many) games and confuses many (not all, just many) players.

 

[arnon]

Thanks for the response.

I'm not doing this because of confusion or anything, it is purely "flavor" (IMO) for the swashbuckling perspective... and, I'm taking advantage of the short campaign to test several house rules I've been playing with in my head. And if i (and the payers) will really like it that way i might implement the idea in further campaigns.

If I'll go the "Simplified Way" I'll probably go Hawkens' way:

1) Making a ranged attack while threatened by a melee opponent.
2) Casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 standard or move action. (I use the Revised Elements of Magic, so spells either take 1 standard action or 2 full rounds to cast).

If i go the "Eliminating AoO" way, i have to consider how to compensate the Sea Dog class from Skull & Bones that receives Mobility & Spring Attack at 4th and 8th levels.


Regarding True20... I was itching to test it with this short romp but most my players are new to d20 and since this is only a "break" from our usual programing schedule we (the current DM and me) decided not to burden them with new rules and system.

 

[jdrakeh]

The only noticeable effect that removing AoOs has, IMHO, is that shifts the focus away from the table-top tactics and toward armchair theatre. That said, for most of the 1980s and 1990s, this is pretty much how all RPGs divided their focus. D&D 3x was really responsible for bringing RPGs back to the tabletop.

If you or your players have experience with games like AD&D 2e, Vampire, Werewolf, Over the Edge, Rifts, etc. . . they won't miss AoOs in actual play. If, on the other hand, they were weaned on a more recent generation of games, moving things away from the tabletop and toward character acting could put a serious damper on their fun.

Things to consdier. . .

 

[hong]

Give everyone +5 to Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Regarding True20... I was itching to test it with this short romp but most my players are new to d20 and since this is only a "break" from our usual programing schedule we (the current DM and me) decided not to burden them with new rules and system.

Bah! New players are the best ones to spring new rules upon. They have no preconceptions to break through, it's all new so they do what they want and figure out the rules after rather than looking to the rules before doing what they want.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Just a thought, but I think the possibility of AoOs and the resulting emphasis on tumble and such is more swashbucklery than removing them. What I would consider is simplifying many of the feats to avoid AoOs into skill shecks using tumble or bluff, lowering the entrance requirements to combat expertise and making improved feint the standard bluff in combat manuver with improved fient making it a swift action. The PCs can easily all have a swashbucklery feel while having it still be something cool and impressive about the PCs that they are accomplishing those things.