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D&D 5E No Armor: Addiing Proficiency to AC
- Thread starter Remathilis
- Start date
Remathilis
Legend
Good concerns everyone. Thanks.
A few thoughts:
1.) I want to find a way around armor due to genre/social issues. Hard to see a wild west gunslinger or a paranormal investigator in Kevlar.
2.) I was thinking items that set AC (like mage armor) would use the better of the two values (so mage armor would be a magical proficiency bonus of +4, which would replace a lower AC bonus)
3.) Hadn't thought about barbarian or monk two stat AC. In a modern setting, it might be prudent just to ignore the classes or give them a different bonus.
4.) Definitely waiting to see of the DMG addresses these issues, but was looking to see if this was an avenue worth pursuing.
Carry on.
A few thoughts:
1.) I want to find a way around armor due to genre/social issues. Hard to see a wild west gunslinger or a paranormal investigator in Kevlar.
2.) I was thinking items that set AC (like mage armor) would use the better of the two values (so mage armor would be a magical proficiency bonus of +4, which would replace a lower AC bonus)
3.) Hadn't thought about barbarian or monk two stat AC. In a modern setting, it might be prudent just to ignore the classes or give them a different bonus.
4.) Definitely waiting to see of the DMG addresses these issues, but was looking to see if this was an avenue worth pursuing.
Carry on.
Chocolategravy
First Post
Can't wait to sneak attack people in the face with a pistol.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I think that works perfectly fine. Pretty good actually.
Interesting concept.
1. From what I remember of wild west movies, either the hero shot everyone from the middle of the street and nobody could hit him (let's forget that one) or people shot at each other from behind cover. You could abandon armor but provide lots of cover in encounters. Would a paranormal investigator have lots of encounters? It is quite possible that most combat could be on a mental or spiritual level or something entirely out of the realm of "the ghost hit me."
2. I could see something like mage armor working for the paranormal investigator (something like the Dresden files?), but I can't think of something equivalent to give to the gunfighter beside the need to hide behind cover. It is possible that one solution does not cover this and it would be setting specific in each case.
3. I like the monk and barbarian bonuses in this situation. The monk paranormal investigator fits in flavor wise nicely, and the barbarian bar room brawler can take more licks before it goes down. I think the problem is what to do about the classes that need armor rather than those that do not. Your gunslinger is probably going to have 20 dex eventually anyway for his ranged weapon. A 15 AC is not bad. With good cover that goes up to 20. You could also reasonably give the gunslinger a leather or studded leather jacket (some sort of light armor).
4. I think it is worth thinking about how something works in your potential setting, but I would not work on it too hard if you are not going to start your campaign in the next 1.5 months. It would be easier to wait for the DMG and then formulate your ideas.
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
What you're suggesting is essentially a static "save vs attack." One of my many homebrew systems explored that option; I wanted high level fighters to be harder to hit than low level fighters. For combat skill to have an impact on defense, in other words. Trying to model the whole clifftop duel scene from Princess Bride.
Hit Points is D&D's solution. High level characters aren't harder to hit, they can simply take more hits. My homebrew solution was to explore ditching hit points (instead going for something like a save vs suffering a wound, with a DC based on incoming damage and the type of armor worn). Again going for Princess Bride: Wesley is KOd by a single knock on the head. Alas, I never completed the system.
Anyway, to address your question: I think the math would still work. As pointed out by others, the barbarian and monk will have a significant AC advantage. Also, be prepared for when your players do put on armor. Maybe go the DR route: 1 for light, 2 for medium, 3 for heavy.
Hit Points is D&D's solution. High level characters aren't harder to hit, they can simply take more hits. My homebrew solution was to explore ditching hit points (instead going for something like a save vs suffering a wound, with a DC based on incoming damage and the type of armor worn). Again going for Princess Bride: Wesley is KOd by a single knock on the head. Alas, I never completed the system.
Anyway, to address your question: I think the math would still work. As pointed out by others, the barbarian and monk will have a significant AC advantage. Also, be prepared for when your players do put on armor. Maybe go the DR route: 1 for light, 2 for medium, 3 for heavy.
Astrosicebear
First Post
I think we'd need to know more about the setting to have an idea how to help.
Remathilis
Legend
Well, I didn't have one specific setting in mind per se (since this was a bit of a test run to see if such a system would even work) but lets take two fairly usable examples.
Masque of the Red Death. A modern(ish) take on Ravenloft set in the 1890's (or thereabouts). The style of game can run from being very Victorian to Western to Southern Gothic. The important thing is that nobody wears armor; it doesn't really fit the feel of gentlemen, mediums, and charlatans that Gothic Horror invokes. In MotRD classically, there were four classes (replacing Fighter, Thief, Cleric, and Mage) so no worrying about barbarians or monks, but firearm combat is common, magic is rare(r), and monsters straight from the MM (like vampires, golems, mummies and werewolves) are a must have.
If the system worked, I wouldn't mind extending it to d20 Modern like 5e; set in 21st century Earth with magic and monsters. Same premise as MotRD, but more keyed to modern horror/fantasy (Buffy, Supernatural, Sleepy Hollow) vs. Victorian. A system that could make the transition would be excellent.
More to the point, I was looking for something that could mimic the Defense Bonus mechanic of 3e era d20 rules. Since all classes have the same Bab, it seemed to make sense that they would all use the same for AC in light of lack of armor. However, people have pointed out some of the potential pitfalls (and that's not even addressing magic items).
Masque of the Red Death. A modern(ish) take on Ravenloft set in the 1890's (or thereabouts). The style of game can run from being very Victorian to Western to Southern Gothic. The important thing is that nobody wears armor; it doesn't really fit the feel of gentlemen, mediums, and charlatans that Gothic Horror invokes. In MotRD classically, there were four classes (replacing Fighter, Thief, Cleric, and Mage) so no worrying about barbarians or monks, but firearm combat is common, magic is rare(r), and monsters straight from the MM (like vampires, golems, mummies and werewolves) are a must have.
If the system worked, I wouldn't mind extending it to d20 Modern like 5e; set in 21st century Earth with magic and monsters. Same premise as MotRD, but more keyed to modern horror/fantasy (Buffy, Supernatural, Sleepy Hollow) vs. Victorian. A system that could make the transition would be excellent.
More to the point, I was looking for something that could mimic the Defense Bonus mechanic of 3e era d20 rules. Since all classes have the same Bab, it seemed to make sense that they would all use the same for AC in light of lack of armor. However, people have pointed out some of the potential pitfalls (and that's not even addressing magic items).
I think a much more practical approach would be to have enchanted clothing that acts as armor. You don't even have to monkey with proficiencies this way; just say that the classes with heavier proficiency are better at getting the most out of their defensive enchantments.
It's kind of like the bulletproof business suits you find in Shadowrun.
It's kind of like the bulletproof business suits you find in Shadowrun.
BigVanVader
First Post
Ewww, magical solutions instead of martial ones.
I like your proficiency idea. Or, they could just not be as good at protecting themselves as damage, thus they don't go rushing into battle like a group of D&D adventurers.
Although, one thing a DM did long ago that I liked, was after someone attacks, the other person gets to roll to dodge(or block, or counter, depending on what they were good at). Gives the high DEX person a chance not to get his eyeballs ripped out of his sockets despite the lack of armor.
I like your proficiency idea. Or, they could just not be as good at protecting themselves as damage, thus they don't go rushing into battle like a group of D&D adventurers.
Although, one thing a DM did long ago that I liked, was after someone attacks, the other person gets to roll to dodge(or block, or counter, depending on what they were good at). Gives the high DEX person a chance not to get his eyeballs ripped out of his sockets despite the lack of armor.
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