No Druid flight abilities akin to Cloud Chariot?

[Tellerve]

Ok, so I've looked through the Druid powers in an attempt to see what I assume would be a gimme. Make the Druid into a bird so they can fly. I fully expected a spell where they might not be able to make attacks or whatnot while flying, and that'd be fine with me. But to be able to travel as a bird just makes sense, but there isn't one.

But clerics get Cloud Chariot (lvl 22 utility) that can 4 people well, 5 if one is on the horse on a magic carpet ride at fly 8. WTF?

Am I missing something in the wild shape rules that allows them to turn into birds normally?

 

[Mort_Q]

But to be able to travel as a bird just makes sense, but there isn't one.

Black Harbinger, Druid Utility 6
Insect Plague, Druid Utility 16
Sky Talon, Druid Utility 22

also, see Sky Hunter paragon path.

 

[Tellerve]

Um, yeah, no. Re-read those powers and then re-read lvl 22 Cleric utility Cloud Chariot.

One lasts 5 minutes, one lasts until you take an extended rest. So...yeah, very very different. Not to mention the extra peeps you can take along with you.

I'm thinking a nice power like...

Murder of Crows - Druid Utility 22
Daily; Polymorph, Primal
Standard Action Close Burst 5
Effect:
You transform yourself and up to 5 other small to medium sized creatures into crows. While transformed you cannot attack, and all your gear stays with you and is part of the transformation. You gain a fly 8 (hover) with overland flight of 12. The effect lasts until your next extended rest, or you dismiss as a free action.

I dunno, something like that. Although since you can still attack and have cover in the Cloud Chariot I think you could make this lower.

Now, granted there is the ritual Phantom Steed, just level 6. Maybe adopt and changing that somehow to a druid ritual where you instead of getting horses you become birds, or maybe just summon big birds. *shrugs*

 

[Ulrik]

Um, yeah, no. Re-read those powers and then re-read lvl 22 Cleric utility Cloud Chariot.

One lasts 5 minutes, one lasts until you take an extended rest. So...yeah, very very different. Not to mention the extra peeps you can take along with you.

They last until you shift out of them. Wild Shape hasn't got a duration, and the power allows you to use Wild Shape to change into a bird or bug, says nothing about cancelling the form when the power expires.

 

[Tellerve]

No, it says until the end of the encounter.

You'll note it says, "Until this power ends, you can use wild shape to change among this form, another beast form, and your humanoid form."

So, while Wild Shape may not have a duration, this power, the one allowing you to be a tiny raven (Black Harbinger lvl 6 utility), has a duraction of the encounter your in currently. Or, if you use it outside of an encounter, 5 minutes as is stated in the PHB for how long an encounter power works outside of a combat encounter.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, I think I would just make a new ritual. I'm not really sure why the Cleric utility isn't a ritual really, it is very 'ritual like'. Given that Phantom Steed is 6th level, it seems to me it would be reasonable to do something in the low paragon level that would operate like you describe. Maybe 10th or 12th level. If the druid wants to change just his/her own shape, then maybe that could be done at 8th or so.

I can easily see a general druid shape changing ritual. There is already one that gives you the form of a tree and that's only level 2, though it is pretty limited. I would make it Religion based, take 10 minutes to cast, last up to 12 hours, and base what you can turn into and how many people you can polymorph on the Religion check result. That would seem consistent with existing rituals and not TOO overly powerful. You would be limited to natural creatures, with abilities like fly or swim available with bit higher success roll.

 

[Taenia]

No, it says until the end of the encounter.

You'll note it says, "Until this power ends, you can use wild shape to change among this form, another beast form, and your humanoid form."

So, while Wild Shape may not have a duration, this power, the one allowing you to be a tiny raven (Black Harbinger lvl 6 utility), has a duraction of the encounter your in currently. Or, if you use it outside of an encounter, 5 minutes as is stated in the PHB for how long an encounter power works outside of a combat encounter.

Right, except that isnt what it means. It says specifically that during the encounter or 5 minutes you can change back and forth to that form, humanoid and your normal beast form. However, the ability alters your wild shape to include a new form and wild shape doenst have a duration. Therefore once you are in raven form and the encounter ends there is nothing saying you turn back, it will last as long as you maintain that shape.

You will note with the daily attack powers they are worded very differently, they say until the end of the encounter while in beast form you get X. This is too differentiate them from the utilities which alter the wild shape ability itself.

This way a druid could fly around all day at level 6, just cant attack, carry, pick up or manipulate objects.

 

[Tellerve]

Well, I think that may be RAI but I don't agree that is RAW. I think it should be clarified as the first sentence just doesn't work for me in getting at how you interpret it.

I would love to, but I don't agree I think perhaps a, Until your next Extended Rest would have worked better. Then I would agree that it is a way to change/augment the Wild Shape for longer than the encounter.

 

[bganon]

It seems to me it's quite deliberately worded to make it clear that you can stay in raven form as long as you like.

Wild Shape does not have a duration. It changes your form, and you stay that way until you change it again. Black Harbinger explicitly gives you a window (until the end of the encounter) during which you can use Wild Shape to turn into a raven. It very deliberately does not say that at the end of the power you change back. Black Harbinger and similar powers do not even have the polymorph keyword. They give you a new use for Wild Shape, that's all, and Wild Shape has no duration.

 

[Tellerve]

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree then. What is the email for Wizards customer service for this, I've never used them but wouldn't mind asking about this for my first one.