D&D 4E No evil gods in 4e?

[Staffan]

Actually, if there's any god who should be connected to the Primordials, it's the Raven Queen IMO. And no, that doesn't mean she should be evil or chaotic evil; it's because death is a concept that should be so timeless it predates even the gods.

There's a difference between Death and Destroying the Universe. I haven't seen the PHB of course, so I don't know what kind of death god the Raven Queen is, but I would imagine her being more of a "Everything dies sooner or later, and when it does it's mine" type. The Primordials on the other hand want to destroy the universe, including whatever place dead souls go to - a clean slate.

I can't help but think of Pratchett's Discworld, where Death is a rather positive figure (well, not viewed that way by most inhabitants, but from the perspective of the reader) who really doesn't like it when the world gets messed up by things from the Dungeon Dimensions and the like.

 

[Xardinhul]

Id be surprised if there are no chaotic evil gods. The orcs in the MM preview where all chaotic evil I believe, which leads me to believe Grumish will be CE as well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There's a difference between Death and Destroying the Universe. I haven't seen the PHB of course, so I don't know what kind of death god the Raven Queen is, but I would imagine her being more of a "Everything dies sooner or later, and when it does it's mine" type.

I think hongs point is more like: If even the Primordals can die, the Raven Queen might be a little ahead of them, or at least have a stronger connection to them that any of the other gods.

 

[malraux]

Tharzdin should be the god associated with the Primordials, since he's the one who got corrupted by their elemental evil.

As for Asmodeus, I could see an argument that he's not quite a full god, as he started as an angel. His powers logically should be just shy of full deities.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I could get behind the idea of all the gods, even the unpleasant ones, being either Good or nonaligned. It serves as another point of distinction from devils and demons, who are Eeeevil.

Well, with the exception of Asmodeus, anyway.

That is how I've run my fantasy games for a good 2 decades now - Gods are Good and Nuetral (unaligned) - Demons, Devils ect were Evil.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Evil Gods aren't in the PHB because it's assumed/recommended that characters will be non-Evil. They'll be in the DMG.

EDIT: That's my working assumption, anyhow.

First the incredibly retarded alignment changes, and now this? Jeez, Wizards, come on.

 

[Mort_Q]

I like it.

 

[Staffan]

That is how I've run my fantasy games for a good 2 decades now - Gods are Good and Nuetral (unaligned) - Demons, Devils ect were Evil.

I had a similar idea for a setting a couple of years ago (never got off the ground though). Basically, most people would worship good/neutral gods, but each of the gods would have a demonic evil mirror. So you'd have the Good god of honorable warfare, and the Evil demon prince of berserk rage; or the Good death god guarding the Underworld, and the Evil demon prince of undeath, and stuff like that.

 

[Fanaelialae]

First the incredibly retarded alignment changes, and now this? Jeez, Wizards, come on.

I don't think that the alignment changes are "retarded" at all. I like the fact that it appears that Wizards has created a less straight-jacketed alignment system.

Returning to the thread topic, my interpretation as to why there are no "evil" gods in the PHB is that they are in the PHB but are treated as unaligned because that is how the common man sees them. Bane, for example, might be a war god. When your country marches to war, the people pray to Bane to grant them swift victory over their enemies and bring their soldiers home safely. Thus, the evil gods would probably seem unaligned (or at least not-evil) to most people (outside of evil cults who worship their evil aspect- tyranny, in Bane's case).

 

[Khur]

So maybe the evil gods were moved to the DMG?

That I would like.

Evil gods are described briefly in the PH and detailed in the DMG. Contrary to limiting player options, it gives the DM the option to go by a default assumption that PCs don't worship evil deities without "over-enforcing" the point. (Most D&D games involve heroic PCs, at least as good as the Han Solo who shot first, not villainous ones.) The DM has all the info needed for evil paladins, whether a player ever creates one or not. If a DM wants PCs to have access to evil gods, it's easy enough to do.

The idea that common folk might see evil gods as unaligned is a story issue for a DM to decide, and one we played on in places such as Mulmaster in FR. The presentation of the gods in the DMG makes it plain what they really are—evil or worse.

Also, can someone who thinks he or she doesn't like the alignment system tell me where the line is between neutral good and chaotic good? Lawful evil and neutral evil? I have a hard time drawing those lines definitively.