No experience for summoned creatures?

[BlindKobold]

The rules state that if a creature/person can summon/create creatures, that no experience should be given for those summoned/created creatures as they are counted in the CR for the original creature/person.

This is twisted and evil and the most abused rule I have come across.

This means a higher level wizard can summon elementals, invisible stalkers, etc. and send them after the PCs and the PCs will get NO EXPERIENCE from them. They could do this 1-2 times a day a mid level and SEVERAL times a day at high level.

This would frustrate the players to no end. I know it frustrates me.

And what does this really mean with skeletons and zombies? Where do they come from? Created. So does this mean the PCs don't get experience from killing them....EVER?! I mean SOMEONE had to create them... and unless they find that someone, and kill them, they get no experience.

What about ghouls, ghasts, wraiths, shadows, vampires, etc. Does thing mean you don't get any experience for killing 6 ghouls if 1 was the "creator" and the other 5 were just spawns?

Does this seem right? I can't believe so.

I can understand if a wizards/cleric/demon, etc. summons a creature DURING combat or immediately before. Heck, they're giving up a spell slot and casting time to summon the creature and concentration (perhaps) to control it.

But summoning creatures at range (invisible stalkers, etc.) and sending them against a party and the PCs not getting any experience is LAME. Especially if the PCs can't retaliate against the mage in question.

As there been any official clarification on this rule, or are players just bending over for it?

 

[Archer]

If the summoner runs away, you win that encounter and score experience based on the CR of the summoner. The rule is there so you don't double count the summoned monster and the summoner every time he attacks.

If you encounter the summoner 5x and survive you score his exp value 5x, but none of the value of anything he summons during those 5 encounters.

 

[hong]

0) No, they get no XP. They wouldn't get XP if the bad guy cast fireball at them, why should summon monster III be any different?

1) Don't forget the spell duration. Even at 20th level, 20 rounds isn't that long if the summoned monster has to travel a long way to join the fight.

2) Created spawn are not summoned or conjured creatures.

3) This creates an incentive for the party to take down the spellcaster quickly, and avoids the "respawning point" syndrome.

4) If it bothers you that much as a DM, don't use this tactic. If it bothers you that much as a player, raise it as an issue with your DM.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

I think it would be fair to give XP for killing summoned creatures IF the party never has a chance to overcome the summoner.

If he's just improved invised in the room and they don't see him and he runs off, they get the XP for him but not the summoned.

If he's not in the room but he teleported the baddies to the party, then they get the XP for the summoned creatures.

At least that's the way I would do it.

--Outsider Spikey

 

[Archer]

The range on summoned creatures is short. They have to stay within range or they disappear so the summoner is always within 1 range increment for a longbow.

If the bad guy cast fireball and ran away, I'd award some experience. The same as I would for a fireball trap if not the full award for winning the encounter against the bad guy.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Yeah, those are the rules for that spell.

But see, I'm a DM, and I can make spells and classes, as well as bend, or even break, rules when I want to.

If they are summoned and you can't confront the summoner, you get XP for the summoned creature.

--Rule 0 Spikey

 

[Sagiro]

The range on summoned creatures is short. They have to stay within range or they disappear so the summoner is always within 1 range increment for a longbow.

I don't think this is true.

I think the range for summoning spells indicates how far away from the caster the summoned creature can be when it first arrives. Once it's summoned, it can go anywhere it wants until it's killed, dismissed, or the spell duration expires.

In that regard, it's no different than (say) wall of force, which doesn't suddenly vanish if you move far away from it.

At least that's how I read it.

-Sagiro

 

[Ristamar]

I don't think this is true.

I think the range for summoning spells indicates how far away from the caster the summoned creature can be when it first arrives. Once it's summoned, it can go anywhere it wants until it's killed, dismissed, or the spell duration expires.

In that regard, it's no different than (say) wall of force, which doesn't suddenly vanish if you move far away from it.

At least that's how I read it.

-Sagiro

*nod* I agree. That's how I always interpreted it, as well.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

From the SRD:
Range

A spell's range indicates how far from the character it can reach, as defined on the Range line of the spell description. A spell's range is the maximum distance from the character that the spell's effect can occur, as well as the maximum distance at which the character can designate the spell's point of origin. If any portion of the spell's area would extend beyond the range, that area is wasted. Standard ranges include:

From the SRD:
Summon Monster I

Conjuration (Summoning) [see text]
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 full round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell summons an outsider (extraplanar creature) that attacks the character's enemies. It appears where the character designates and acts immediately, on the character's turn. It attacks the character's opponents to the best of its ability. If the character can communicate with the outsider, the character can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. Summoned creatures act normally on the last round of the spell and disappear at the end of their turn.

Choose a 1st-level monster from the Summon Monster table.

1st Level

Celestial dog (animal) LG
Celestial badger (animal) CG
Fiendish dire rat LE
Fiendish hawk (animal) CE
When the character uses a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type. For example, summon monster I is a lawful and evil spell when cast to summon a dire rat.

I think according to a strict interpretation of the rules, Archer is right.

--Quoted Spikey

 

[Ristamar]

I think according to a strict interpretation of the rules, Archer is right.

--Quoted Spikey

So by that line of reasoning, you're saying that if I were to cast Blindness on someone, and they ran far enough away, the Blindness would be instantly dispelled?

I believe you're reading the SRD Range quote out of context. In the case of a summons, it only applies to the point of origin upon the moment of casting, not the entire duration of the spell.