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D&D 5E No good deed goes unpunished

aco175

Legend
I would be tempted to have a group of youths steal part of the money to set themselves up with adventuring gear and set off to protect the town from further problems. Of course they get caught by something PC level appropriate and need rescuing. It could be bandits holding them hostage and want the rest of the money.

Another idea is to use the money to attract a group of retired adventurers or a wizard to settle down in their town. They think they are getting people that will protect them the next time and end up with bullies or thugs that now need dealing with.

Any way you do this I think it is a good idea to further bring the PCs back to the town and help your world come alive a bit more.
 

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A few points of contention. First, was the entire village made aware of the generous donation, or was the money given discreetly to the Mayor/Elder? Second, what is the personality/alignment/whatever of the Mayor/Elder? Is He/She working for the good of the town? Assuming it is indeed a small village/hamlet, most or everybody is working for the better of the village. So, probably, the Elder will spread money out as needed to rebuild/restock the village, and set aside whatever is left for an as needed basis.

Also, i like snickersnax's idea of a Criminal Mastermind trying to gain vengeance for some supposed foul the villagers or the elder imposed on him/her. Or the macguffin or item of wonderous power the town secretly has. Or perhaps even the town doesn't know it has, but this CM thinks they have, and is trying to get for him/herself.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Let me suggest an approach based on demographics.

There are let's say 120 persons in the village, of which lets say 80 are adults comprising 50 different family groups, most of are closely related to each other. These 50 family groups are collected into 10-30 households, most of which are multi-family households working farms collectively. Marriage of 3rd or even 2nd cousins is not uncommon, and the village is divided into three main clans and handful of recent 'immigrants'.

Since this is a human community, 80% of the villagers (fully 96 of them) are neutral aligned with a rational, utilitarian, survivalist mentality. These people have no time for deep thought about ethical principles - they are concerned with putting bread on their table. While these people wouldn't refrain from theft or even murder to advance their own interest if they thought they could get away with it, they are also constrained by fear of retaliation or discovery as well as loosely both by their loyalty to kin and their respect for the communities traditions and their desire to be thought of well by their neighbors. Their considerations are, "From a rational perspective, will stealing gold or murdering kinsman improve my life?" Limited in education though they may be, few are so stupid as to think that. Instead, there will be some jealous bickering and jockeying for advantage, and perhaps some hard feelings, angry words, and maybe a fist thrown - but for the most part it doesn't make sense to act ruthlessly evil in this situation.

Of the 20% remaining, about half will represent the dominate ethical tradition of the larger community - whether a region with an independent ethnic tradition or a nation. For the majority of human nations, this is usually Lawful Good. This means that in our community of 120 has 12 Lawful Good individuals. These individuals will ascribe to the idea of the common good, and to the idea of benevolent mercy. They will lobby for the money to be used to help the community as a whole, and will strongly resist any sort of unlawful activity. They will be appalled by even the thought of responding to the PC's charitable and honorable act with any sort of uncharitable and dishonorable act.

The remaining 12 will be divided among the other 7 possible alignments, with those alignments further from the societies ethical norms being less and less common. So there might be 3 Neutral Good inhabitants of the village, whose sole concern will be benevolence - giving the money to those that need it most and would profit from it most. There might be 3 Lawful Neutral inhabitants of the village whose sole concern will be that the money is used for a communal purpose, regardless of whether that purpose helps those in need. The remaining six are distributed more or less equally in this case amongst Chaotic Good, Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil, Chaotic Neutral, and Chaotic Evil - about 1 each, with perhaps 2 Chaotic Goods or 2 Lawful Evils. Each of these might have their own reasons for engaging in either unlawful or unethical behavior (or both), but note that they'll largely be constrained from doing so by the fact that their position is such a minority one. Almost no one is going to support them in such an individual action. The Lawful Evil's in particular will respect any decision made by the lawful authority, even if it is one they themselves consider wasteful and foolish. The Chaotic Good's will respect any decision that is at least somewhat benevolent and would only engage in theft probably if necessary to save someone's life and no other option was available. They certainly aren't going to kill someone over money, least of all for their own profit. Some Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil NPC with no loyalty at all to the community, might try to abscond with the funds and flee the community but that's the worst they'd plan. Some Neutral Evil character might plot some sort evil against the community as a whole, but its doubtful a village actually contains a diabolical mastermind and a Neutral Evil character isn't going to be triggered into action unless this situation offers them leverage. That is to say, NE's aren't motivated by personal advantage so greed isn't as important to them as seeing other people suffer. In reality, what we are dealing with is probably a sociopath that expresses their lack of compassion by spreading gossip and slander, not missing a chance to stir up trouble with his neighbors, or to point out flaws, make up insults, belittle those that have made mistakes, and generally poison people's opinions. That's plenty evil without it expressing itself through acts of murder and the like.

And because of the demographics here, it's even more constrained than that. At least some of those aligned characters are children, with limited ability to influence adult affairs. Because of the limited social opportunities in the community, it's highly likely that most aligned characters are socially joined (by marriage for example) to neutrally aligned characters that will act as something of a check on individual action. You aren't going to murder someone if you know your wife is going to be upset you robbed or murdered of her cousin, and at the very least the fact that the 6-8 people who are in your household won't necessarily back your actions are going to act as a check on any plan because it's going to make it harder to get away with.

So for a village, at worst, some single CE character commits a single murder and runs off with the equivalent of few thousand dollars. That's the realistic response here, and even it doesn't seem to be likely given the circumstances. Sure, the dominate national morality might be CE, and the alignment of the local authority figures will matter a great deal, and if the morale of the nation is low there might be some sort of philosophical turmoil that means the dominate morality is being challenged by a dissident morality, but even then plots of the sort imagined in the original post seem unlikely.

Moreover, the amount of funds in question is so small, that once it is distributed it's not going to be a great temptation to anyone. A reasonable distribution is the village elder gives a 1/3rd share to his lord, and then distributes 6-8 g.p to each person in the village. 400 g.p. is a small share of the lord's value, and 8 g.p. per family member in the household is nice bonus, but is not in fact a huge share of the household's collective worth. It's like the worth of sheep or a trained hunting dog. There is nothing now left to tempt bandits into desperate acts.
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
The situation: A few game months ago in my campaign, the party happened upon a small village while on the way to another destination. This village of maybe 70 souls was having an issue with a group of hill giants who had been extorting them for their livestock. The party, being the heroes that they are, vowed to deal with the giants.

They did, handily killing the giants and scooping up a nice haul of 1200gp in the process.

And then they promptly gave the 1200gp to the villagers and rode out of town without a second thought, patting themselves on the back for being such good fellows.

Now this was just supposed to be a quick side quest to break up the travel, but once they handed all that cash over to those villagers it got me thinking.

These are peasants, suddenly with more gold on hand than they could ever expect to see in their lives. What sort of effect would that have on these humble folk? I decided that it wouldn't be good.

The village elder was left with all the gold, but what does he do with it? Does he split it evenly? Does he split it by person, or by family? Do the families that have lost relatives or livestock to the giants want an extra share? There's got to be infighting among the villagers as to how this is going to be split, and that could get ugly fast.

Does the elder have a roustabout brother or son that wants to steal all the gold for himself?

And what about the local bandit gang? What will they do if they get wind of the villages sudden influx of wealth?

And this doesn't even take into account the local nobility who is sure to want his cut!

My PC's have no idea of the chaos they have wrought in this once peaceful village among folk who were once friends and relatives, but they are going to be traveling back through it soon and I would love them to ride into this town, expecting to be hailed as beloved heroes, only to find barely anybody left, and those who remain wanting nothing more than to spit on their feet.

So what I'm looking for is scenarios. How would 1200gp throw a village of peasants into a spiral of murder, theft, mistrust, and doom? I have a few ideas, but I thought I'd throw it out to the evil peanut gallery and see what comes back.

Two quick points:

1) Not all cultures would be so dog-eat-dog. Many agrarian villages probably had much more socialistic values. "It takes a village to raise a child" being a motto harkening back to before the Industrial Revolution. While I could entirely see the winnings be harshly taxed by their feudal lord (if you're using a feudal government), or attracting bandits, or maybe having one or two "bad apples"....I'd imagine that the villagers would mostly cooperate to distribute the wealth where it needs to go – fixing Tomvald's barn so the animals don't get disease from wet-foot, buying sleds for each family to help bring their goods to market, building a proper inn for merchants/the visiting lord/visiting adventurers, and so forth. 1200 gp could easily be spent on infrastructure & buildings.

2) Being a peasant doesn't mean someone can't be financially savvy. My great grandmother was a shepherdess when she came to America in an arranged marriage, and she became a real estate investor just using her natural talents. It might be fun to imagine what one enterprising NPC could do with 100 gp or so...maybe invent a new kind of plough (drawing upon real world history for inspiration)? Or a gnomish tinker who makes the village the fireworks center of the principality/kingdom?
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
They did, handily killing the giants and scooping up a nice haul of 1200gp in the process. ..

These are peasants, suddenly with more gold on hand than they could ever expect to see in their lives. What sort of effect would that have on these humble folk? I decided that it wouldn't be good.
I see a disconnect here. The level of detail/realism/grit in giants dropping a round 1200 gp when you kill 'em vs the peasants coping with the moral/ethical influx of wealth into their hardscrabble existence. The former is light-hearted, B&W morality, broad strokes - the latter is gritty, grey, detail.

Now, you could have the PCs roll back into town to find the village having partied themselves silly, or built an expensive bronze statue commemorating them or some other misguided use of the funds.

Or, you could have had the Giants have more grim-and-gritty-detailed treasure, in the first place. Goods pillaged from the village and passing traders, livestock, slaves, weapons & armor of past victims, etc...
...there'd be plenty of rancor, disputes, and morally grey decision making in trying to 'do the right thing' with such a haul. Do you free the slaves? Can they fend for themselves? Do you try to trace the goods back to their rightful owners? Or heirs? How hard do you try? If the weapons & armor aren't up to the adventurers' standards, do you give 'em to the town so they can defend themselves better - what kind of trouble could a young hot-headed peasant get himself into once he's armed?
 

Since this is a human community, 80% of the villagers (fully 96 of them) are neutral aligned with a rational, utilitarian, survivalist mentality. These people have no time for deep thought about ethical principles - they are concerned with putting bread on their table. While these people wouldn't refrain from theft or even murder to advance their own interest if they thought they could get away with it, they are also constrained by fear of retaliation or discovery as well as loosely both by their loyalty to kin and their respect for the communities traditions and their desire to be thought of well by their neighbors. Their considerations are, "From a rational perspective, will stealing gold or murdering kinsman improve my life?" Limited in education though they may be, few are so stupid as to think that. Instead, there will be some jealous bickering and jockeying for advantage, and perhaps some hard feelings, angry words, and maybe a fist thrown - but for the most part it doesn't make sense to act ruthlessly evil in this situation.

Wow, you and I have VERY different views of what Neutrality means in D&D. To me, you described a sociopath, only held in check by rational fear of reprisal. That's Evil, just lazy/risk averse. Neutral people still love their friends, family and probably even community, just not much outside their monkeysphere. They'll pitch in to help rebuild their own town after a natural disaster, but wont take on hardship for the sake of refugees for example. It's the "me and mine" mentality that makes up the bulk of the world. Kind of cruddy, but wont stab their kin in the back if no one is watching.

If that's how neutrals are in your world, I think I'd just lump in with the orcs. At least they're honest about being monsters lol.

And I'll join the angelic chorus here. It seems petty to punish the party for good deeds unless you just want to groom a group of murderhobos running around crapsack world.
 

schnee

First Post
Let's look at this objectively.

1200 gold buys:

Not even 1 suit of Plate Armor - just 6 suits of Splint

1 Spyglass, Magnifying Glass, 1 Hourglass, 1 Spellbook, and 1 Tinker's Tools

1 year of 16 people at Poor Lifestyle, or ~3 people at Comfortable

10 Draft horses, 5 carriages, horse feed for a year, and a bit left over. (Hope the horses don't get sick.)

If you look at p. 127 of the DMG, this is basically enough to keep a small Shop with 2 skilled hirelings running for a year.

It's not 'Lord of the Flies' money.

It's more like 'Down payment on a piece of land' money, or 'one family disappeared and was never heard from again' money. It may lead to the one who they gave it to running off with it, and maybe some shenanigans after that, but not utter ruin for everyone.

If anything, I'd see the Mayor skipping town, or (if it was given to someone without experience with money) the receiver running off and blowing all the money in the city like some lottery winner and slinking back to their old place and trying to hide the fact, or the receiver running off and getting caught, them being (beaten/jailed/maybe killed) and the money being confiscated and put into some modest improvements to the town.
 
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Celebrim

Legend
Wow, you and I have VERY different views of what Neutrality means in D&D.

Maybe.

To me, you described a sociopath...

No, I actually did describe a sociopath in the text.

...only held in check by rational fear of reprisal. That's Evil, just lazy/risk averse. Neutral people still love their friends, family and probably even community, just not much outside their monkeysphere. They'll pitch in to help rebuild their own town after a natural disaster, but wont take on hardship for the sake of refugees for example. It's the "me and mine" mentality that makes up the bulk of the world. Kind of cruddy, but wont stab their kin in the back if no one is watching.

That isn't really very different than what I wrote when I said that in addition to their fear of reprisal, they were held in check by "by their loyalty to kin and their respect for the communities traditions and their desire to be thought of well by their neighbors" The difference between these people and aligned characters is they don't hold such things as moral absolutes. For the neutral, everything is a moral relative. Murder isn't bad in and of itself. It's only bad circumstantially. Your description actually is quite spot on when you say that they will tend to divide the world into 'us and them'. We're talking people who for the most part would never kill a friend over 100 g.p., but killing a stranger over 100 g.p. if they thought they could get away with it is an entirely different matter and robbing a stranger of 100 g.p. if they thought they could get away with it might provoke in them no moral qualms at all. They might not even see how they did anything wrong, and could trust the rest of the community for the most part to laud their cunning and boldness.

Is that as really cruddy? Yes, yes it is. Is that IMO 'evil'? Sure. But that's not D&D Evil. D&D Evil sees evil as an absolute moral good. It's the difference between all the generally cruddy people that make up humanity, and a murderous member of a death cult. Or to go full Godwin here, it's the difference between the average German during WWII fighting for his nation, the defense of his country, prosperity, and so forth - a person objectively no worse than the majority of people in every other nation - and the actual Nazi true believers that made up the core of the party, the SS officer corp, and so forth.
 

The situation: A few game months ago in my campaign, the party happened upon a small village while on the way to another destination. This village of maybe 70 souls was having an issue with a group of hill giants who had been extorting them for their livestock. The party, being the heroes that they are, vowed to deal with the giants.

They did, handily killing the giants and scooping up a nice haul of 1200gp in the process.

And then they promptly gave the 1200gp to the villagers and rode out of town without a second thought, patting themselves on the back for being such good fellows.

Now this was just supposed to be a quick side quest to break up the travel, but once they handed all that cash over to those villagers it got me thinking.

These are peasants, suddenly with more gold on hand than they could ever expect to see in their lives. What sort of effect would that have on these humble folk? I decided that it wouldn't be good.

It might be lot of CASH, but not really much wealth, given that the modest lifestyle is 1gp a day. It would let someone live a mediocre life for 4 years or so.

So what I'm looking for is scenarios. How would 1200gp throw a village of peasants into a spiral of murder, theft, mistrust, and doom? I have a few ideas, but I thought I'd throw it out to the evil peanut gallery and see what comes back.

It doesnt. That's like roughly like giving a town $100,000.00. Not THAT big a deal once distributed among 70 people. Not enough to tear apart a community that's stuck together through hill giant attacks, and certainly not enough to punish your players for their generosity. if you do, be sure you throw a Nelson Muntz "Ha ha" at them...
 
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Brainwatch

Explorer
Perhaps, instead of the cliched something bad comes from every PC action/relationship, this one results in something more neutral. Perhaps the elder is a good person with a saavy business sence, but never had the money to do anything. Now with the funds the PC left, he finally can enact his plan. He invests in something that slowly results in the village starting to grow and prosper. Have the PC cme back in a few years to find the small village now a small buslting town. The riginal people remeber the PCs. Some priase them for the changes that have happened in the viallage, grow, prosperity (for some). Other blame the PC for the changes in the town, more people, noise, crime. Some are thrilled with the changes, others long for the way it use to be. Did the PCs do good? maybe, maybe not, it depends on who one asks? They changed a village. That change in and of itslef is neither good or bad. The PCs can take what they want from it. Perhaps this new bigger town becomes a new welcoming "home" for the PCs. Perhaps they are given the cold shoulder for starting all these changes.
 

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