No Indiana Jones in D&D?

Henry@home

First Post
I like the Comprehend Languages "Literal only" translation idea. Has anyone ever taken a page of text and run it through a translation program? It is good enough to get the jist, but the page is still garbled.

Does anyone remember where "Charwoman Gene" came from? :D

Besides this, there is still plenty of room for the actionable parts of exploration. Indiana Jones wasn't really about studying onerous translations - rather, most of his time was spent running from huge boulders, avoiding booby traps, and beating the crap out of cultists and nazis. (Oh, mustn't forget about the "making out with hot women" part.)

In a pulp-fiction atmosphere, there is plenty of room for thrills and adventures to be had just exploring the ruins of a sacrificial temple, or a burial place for a long-forgotten religious artifact.
 

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BluWolf

Explorer
I few years ago I had a player base a Cleric of Oghma on Indiana Jones. He was a littel more bookish in apparaoch but his main focus was researching the past and looking for lost treasures for his temple.

I think there is plenty of room for this sort of archetype in 3E. Magical divination (regardless of cource) is limited in funtionality because much of it does require some degree of knowledge before hand. I'm not aware (though I have not looked) of a spell andy caster could cast theat would work if he just said (show me the lost temple of Karnack".

Now if he did some major research ahead of time looking for clues, descriptions, place names, people...that MAY work.

But I think you could have plenty of adventure hooks based solely off the research before hand.
"There is rumored to be an old library with many texts dealing with Brother Salvadore's expedition to X country Y number of years ago in the port city of Bubbafries. Of course we all know Bubba fries is under the control of a Goblin king and they don't welcome many librarians willingly."

Also, you make the assumption that arcane or divine magic is available to everyone. I don't share this premise. But this really comes down to the sort of campaign world you run.
 

Oracular Vision

First Post
In Living Greyhawk, the Yeomanry (where I am from) has a prestige class called the Dust Diggers, which is pretty much an Indiana Jones-type organization. They collect artifacts and send parties to their doom, er, I mean to do jobs for them. I have an influence point with them already. It hasn't been approved yet by the RPGA LG HQ (its only been there a year, I guess it takes a long time to read 1 page). But you could be one once you meet the prerequisites (if they ever read it and approve it).
 

Yes, to add to flavor, I'd say that a spellcaster has to at least know of the language in order to translate it. If he thinks it's Spanish, but it's actually Portuguese, he's out of luck.

But Henry, where did Charwoman Gene come from?
 

Jack Haggerty

First Post
Heretic Apostate said:
With all the spells out there (Comprehend Languages, Legend Lore and the like), is there room for adventurers who want to explore old ruins, find out about ancient civilizations, and so on? Why bother searching through old, forgotten manuscripts in the hopes of translating ancient writings, when a spell can do it just as easily? Why bother hunting up that old sage if a spell can provide you with the same stuff without all the hunting?

Does anyone ever do this type of stuff in their games? (I was just watching this documentary about the German amateur archaeologist (sp?) who discovered the ruins of Troy and the palace of Agamemnon, all by studying Homer's Illiad. Very interesting stuff. That guy managed to find several treasures, simply by studying what was thought to be myths, and connecting the "myths" to actual places....)

This is exactly the idea behind my Halfling Rogue/Wizard (who will eventually prestige into Arcane Trickster)...

He works for a museum full of wizards, who are training him as an apprentice. In return, he hunts through ancient ruins and brings back magical artifacts for them to study. He's sort of a fantasy grad student of sorts.
 

1StrangeFellow

First Post
Reviving an old thread, but I have some thoughts...

Unless you live in a totally high magic world, what respectable, non-arcane scholar is going to trust in the divinations of some strange wizard? Why have locksmiths when you have the spell Arcane Lock? Why invent breathing apparatus to explore under the sea when you've got Alter Self and Waterbreathing? Better yet, why sail across the ocean and discover the 'new world' when several scholars can prove the world is round right there at home? Why go to the moon?

There are several reasons why non-magical archaeologists, historians and tomb-raiders would have a place in a D&D world.

Wizards like to keep knowledge for themselves. Sure, it takes some intelligence to learn magic but by the rules anyone with an 11 Int should be able to fire off a magic missile. They keep secrets to themselves or within their own societies. Are they any more likely to share the secrets of a lost civilization than they are to share the secrets of magic?

Wizards are focused in their interests and research. An archaeologist wizard might be very interested in knowing about the magical beliefs or rituals of a lost civilization. He devotes his entire life to learning magic. Is he going to devote as much attention to things that might interest a true historical scholar, such as ancient methods of grain storage or the etiquette of the high court? Does a 20th level wizard want to spend time using his hard-earned magic learning about the day in the life of the hairdresser of the concubine of a long-dead Emperor? A truly devoted archaeologist or historical scholar might, but a wizard?

Some traditional scholars might not trust the "research" of a wizard, a casual spell fired off here or there. In addition, while a spell might give some information, nuances or context of information might not be readily noticable through a spell.

Unless everyone has some magical talent in the world, the ability to provide proof and teach others about discoveries is going to be sorely limited if all proof is provided by magic. "We'd love to explain exactly how we know that the tablet is 3,000 years old, but you would have to be a 12th level wizard with access to these spells to understand." That's not going to go over well among other scholars and students.

Political backlash. If wizards are the ultimate authority on history and past events, this gives them a certain power that others might not appreciate. Look at it a certain way, and Copernicus wasn't just condemned for his discoveries, but because the church and church-supported monarchies could not justify their positions if his claims were true. Add magic into the mix. A political or religious figure can dispute a thesis for a time, but a thesis backed up by high-level spells? They are more likely to fund or support an expedition by (fallible) traditional scholars than anything done through magic alone. There's also the uncomfortable possibility that a magician might contradict the powers that be or uncover some 'dirty little secret', which would be much easier to hide from a normal academic or treasure hunter.

I could go on for a while, especially with magic-user stereotypes and preconceptions. Suffice it to say that a discovery means nothing if you cannot share the discovery with the common man or pass the information along in a format that is readily understood. If you can't explain how you arrived at the solution, the equation is meaningless. Not everyone has magic (arcane or divine, although I use wizards exclusively in my examples). Common (non-magical) people are going to want to rely on common, non-magical thought and reasoning. Tangible evidence and work that they can relate to and follow along with rather than a wizard coming out of a tomb and saying 'King Whatisname's ghost told me that he died alone choking on a pretzel 3,000 years ago through a divination spell I cast." Where's the proof? Somewhere along the line, someone is going to want to find the fossilized piece of crunchy snack pastry lodged in his throat and find some historical records of such an event. Otherwise it's just some goofy wizard in a pointy hat making a bunch of claims the average scholar can't back up.
 

Storminator

First Post
Indiana was a solo adventurer for the most part. Sure he picked up sidekicks and helpers here and there, but he was the only real hero in his stories.

So if you have 1 PC, and you're searching for lost tombs and such, what class do you pick? I'm guessing it's NOT a specialist Diviner. Rogue/Fighter is the way to go. Lots of skill points in Knowledge, Gather Info, etc, lots of trap skills, can fight his way out of trouble. Occasional stops at home base (where the Diviner gives some pointers and guidance) and then out in the field all alone.

Not your typical D&D party.

PS
 

Jack Haggerty

First Post
Storminator said:
Indiana was a solo adventurer for the most part. Sure he picked up sidekicks and helpers here and there, but he was the only real hero in his stories.

So if you have 1 PC, and you're searching for lost tombs and such, what class do you pick? I'm guessing it's NOT a specialist Diviner. Rogue/Fighter is the way to go. Lots of skill points in Knowledge, Gather Info, etc, lots of trap skills, can fight his way out of trouble. Occasional stops at home base (where the Diviner gives some pointers and guidance) and then out in the field all alone.

Not your typical D&D party.

PS

I could see that guy picking up a few levels of Sorcerer, though, for a couple of handy low level spells.
 

mkletch

First Post
In Sword and Sorcery's Creature Collection I, there is the Slarecian Language Virus, that inflicts a Tower of Babel-esque magical disease on anyone that attempts to decipher the Slarecian language through magic. This could possibly be extended further than a written language, to encourage the use of non-magical skills for treasure hunting, map interpretation, riddle resolution, deconstruction of ancient myths and such. The list goes on. The Virus is described pretty well, so buy or borrow the book for details...

-Fletch!
 
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