No love for Oathbound?

[Psion]

I think conceptually, oathbound is a pretty cool world. I really dig all the different races. Most new races (especially those by WotC) seem almost more like different ethnicities than truly nonhuman races. Not so in oathbound.

As may be well known, I don't dig level-like mechanics that don't use levels. I mean prestige races work after a fashion, and are a neat concept, but from a mechanical standpoint they feel clumsy to me.

It seems like they put too much attention into Penance. Penance was the primary focus of the core book. Oathbound's other domains seemed cool in the core book, they put off developing them in favor of adding even more detail to Pennance. (Speaking of which, the channelling mechanic in Plains of Pennance is clearly bent.)

I could run an Oathbound game if the players expressed an interest (or play in the same). I could stand prestige races and actually think that characters made with them would be sort of interesting, but it would change the way I award experience.

 

[Staffan]

I like Oathbound, though like people have pointed out it does have its problems (I really don't like most of the "showing muscle" art). However, just as I was getting a campaign going, this thing called Eberron slammed into me and forced me to run a campaign in that setting instead.

 

[Sir Trent]

I did not find it very interesting. The new races and the art were both so bad as to give me a bad first impression. I realize that I am hard to please but the setting just did nothing for me.

 

[JoeGKushner]

1. It's expensive. It was more expensive for it's time than people are willing to pay. The switch to b&w art with minimal price drops didn't help either.

2. Art. I didn't mind the art but a lot of people did. I've mentioned it several times that art helps sell and people keep looking at me like I'm crazy. "but I want it in 8 point font with three columns on newspaper to save a dollar!"

3. Pennance: Way too much detail on that one part of the setting.

4. Metaplot: way too much hand holding in the background present in the adventures.

5. Trapped! Not everyone likes settings like Dungeonworld and Ravenloft and Oathbound has that feeling about it. Heck, do you see a lot of talk about those two settings? Nope.

6. Reuse: Some people like the races but I couldn't stand a lot of them. Too many human animals that appeared in Minions and some of them, like the Ceptu, should be rolled in bread crumbs and fried in olive oil for 10-15 minutes per pound.

 

[Vaxalon]

Joe, I find it hard to believe you actually READ Oathbound.

Penance (spell it right, please) got the most attention in the first book because the first book was basically laid out as a general introduction to the Forge, plus enough detail on Penance to start playing. Otherwise it wouldn't have been usable, and people like you would be complaining that it didn't have enough information to get started!

The metaplot ONLY exists in the adventures, and if you ignore them and make your own adventures, they do you no harm whatsoever. If no adventures had been included, people like you would be complaining for their lack!

Yes, the "prison" aspect of the Forge is a central theme. The fact that anyone from anywhere can get carried off to the Forge and stuck there is part of the charm. The level of difficulty of getting out of it is entirely up to the DM. If your character feels trapped there, it's your DM's fault!

Yes, many of the races of the Forge are unusual. If they hadn't been, people like you would be complaining about the "same old same old" races!

Really, Joe, it sounds to me like you listed all the aspects that make Oathbound what it is, and then hunted around for some way, ANY way, to complain about them.

 

[tf360]

I'd like to address some of the issues raised in this thread since I am now the "official" line designer for Oathbound in a frank and forthright manner. The most commonly raised issue in this thread seems to have been the art presumably found in the core rulebook. I love the cover, some of the interior art, especially with the sinewy look did not appeal to many. Personally, I've never found art, (outside of a cover) to be the make or break issue on a product, but as I said, that's my personal opinion. The art in the last three releases (Wrack and Ruin, Arena and Mysteries of Arena) is much more "realistic" for lack of a better term than the conceptual art that appeared in the core rulebook that some have taken a disliking to. Art is naturally subjective so one person's opinion of good art is liking to differ with another's. (Just take a walk through the Musuem of Modern Art in NYC if you don't agree with me.)

That aside, let's talk positives. Oathbound has provided its devotees with four sourcebooks, (two on Penance and two on Arena) as well as multiple pdf's (free and otherwise). A fifth sourcebook, Wildwood, is on the way and it gives players the option to incorporate it into the Oathbound setting or to use it as a stand-alone setting by providing enough background information to run it in that manner. I'm currently in the planning and design stages of two additional sourcebooks for Oathbound, and Bastion has made a commitment to the setting by providing fans with additional pdf releases (Legacies of Oathbound) as well. We've made the decision to continue to support the setting and striving to make it better by providing more products rather than simply killing the setting and moving onto something else.

 

[Teneb]

Frankly, I think the all-inclusive nature of Oathbound is one of its greatest strengths. As a DM, I don't have to worry if another company's ideas will "fit" in my Oathbound game. Find a new PrC in a WotC book? Easily inserted. Cool new landmass? With very minor tweaks, it can fit in. I'm not limited in my creativity.

Metaplot: I admit it, I love metaplots. Call me small minded, non-creative, whatever, but I love them. As mentioned earlier, the metaplot only shows up in the adventures, so its really easy to totally ignore it. Personally, I really value the inclusion of adventures, because my time is very limited and coming up with something from scratch takes a lot of time (for me anyway). I add my own tweaks and hooks, and I have several session's worth of material.

I respect Psion's opinion about Prestige Races; I've talked about them with him on IRC a number of times. However, I don't agree with his opinion. I think Prestige Races are an innovative idea that allows characters to (literally) grow in the direction they want to. I liken them to item creation: only spellcasters can blow XP to create magic items. As a fighter, I feel kind of left out, and as a spellcaster I sometimes wonder why I have to lose XP when the non-spellcasters don't. Prestige races allow ALL classes to use XP for both leveling and evolving. Heck, in my campaign I give "discressionary XP" as treasure, which can only be used in magic item creation or taking a prestige race. My players universally love the concept.

Apologies for the rambling, but I think the bottom line is clear: I think Oathbound the campaign setting (not the table art book) has something for everyone, and is strongly supported by the company. It is my belief and continuing hope that this setting has serious staying power.

 

[jester47]

So why is it not one of the most popular settings?

Multigenre power fantasies are not what most people want in their game. They just want high adventure.

Also, it was a more popular setting initially when d20 started, but I do not think it has stood the test of time. I think this is mainly because after the novelty wore off and the world converted to 3.5 most people were just not into it.

Aaron.

 

[Teneb]

Isn't Oathbound High Adventure? I guess I always consider "high fantasy" to have a lot of action, a lot of magic, and a lot of possible plots. Oathbound fulfils all of these. Is your definition of high adventure quite different?

 

[Crothian]

It is High Adventure but it is not what everone things of when they think High Adventure...Oathbound is High Adventure and so much more...