No! No! Baaaaaaad Marvel Comics!

[Megatron]

Nope, they aren't the same, but its not a stretch to explain power switching by saying these two things interact in unexpected ways. No more a stretch than the Ultimate Nullifier...

No, its just retarded.
I really couldn't care less what you said in previous posts;

edit: nevermind.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Does the Surfer even know, though?

You mean that he led Galactus to all those populated planets without once ever being touched before?

That's a bit of a stretch.

Wasn't he wearing the venom costume at the time?

Nope- the "Firelord Beatdown" occured in Amazing Spiderman 269 & 270...he was wearing a reproduction of the black symbiote costume, which had found Eddie Brock (Venom) in Amazing Spiderman #258 (although he didn't really come back as Venom until about issue #300 or so).

He "won" because his "Spidey sense" allowed him to avoid being hit...and somehow, a guy who had taken hits from the Thing couldn't take a few dozen from Spidey, who isn't even in Firelord's strength class, much less the Thing's.

Well I'm hardly an expert on this stuff but those sound like good numbers to me (for FF). Would they have made a sequel if it had lost money?

Yep.

Coming to America had a budget of 38M and grossed 400M worldwide. It lost money (like I said, due to wonky accounting practices*) on the studio's books.

FF cost 100M to make and grossed 400M worldwide. That's a flop- I guarantee you it's net profits finished in the red (see below).

*Those practices include using subsidiaries for nearly everything in the production/marketing/distribution and counting that against the gross. The movie may lose money, but the company makes it hand over fist. That is why, if you ever get involved in a Hollywood production, you either get your money paid in full before it shows once, or get your money out of the gross profits- there will be no net profits.

 

[death tribble]

I will see this after the trailer. Now I have read the Silver Surfer in his own series but to see what they did in the movie with him travelling through things was just wonderful.

It may not be the Fantastic Four we want but the medium has to get stuff done in at most 2 hours. So you have to have poetic licence. Should they have had Doom's armour be organic though ? No. But I have better hopes for this after the disappointments of Spiderman 3 and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End. Your View May Vary and you are entitled to it.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

You mean that he led Galactus to all those populated planets without once ever being touched before?

That's a bit of a stretch.

But without ever being touched by someone like Johnny...not as much of a stretch. The FF are pretty unique in the universe, and so one could fairly easily reason that unexpected side effects could easily occur with so much power coming into contact with them.

I'm not saying its a perfect explanation, but its definitely not crazy and way out there. It sounds like you're wanting some kind of concrete rational from something that never had that kind of thing in the first place.

And Megatron, there isn't any need to act so angry about things. I'm sorry that I don't agree about how horrid these things are, but at least there IS evidence that one of the major "THIS MOVIE IS HORRIBLE AND WILL SUCK" screamings that has gone on for weeks is proven wrong by a very clear image from a trailer. Not only that, but we have Avi Arad speaking up in the last week saying that "We will see much more than just a cloud" when it comes to Galactus.

With that little fan tantrum about Galactus being a cloud was proved to be so very wrong, I can't help but think the rest are just stretching to find SOMETHING wrong so people can hate it before its even come out.

 

[Darth Shoju]

Nope- the "Firelord Beatdown" occured in Amazing Spiderman 269 & 270...he was wearing a reproduction of the black symbiote costume, which had found Eddie Brock (Venom) in Amazing Spiderman #258 (although he didn't really come back as Venom until about issue #300 or so).

He "won" because his "Spidey sense" allowed him to avoid being hit...and somehow, a guy who had taken hits from the Thing couldn't take a few dozen from Spidey, who isn't even in Firelord's strength class, much less the Thing's.

AH ic. Back then I was randomly getting issues of Spiderman (whatever my parents decided to pick up for me really). All I've got is that one issue of Spidey where he starts fighting him and the issue of Avengers where they get there when it is all done. I never realized it wasn't the symbiote costume he was wearing.

Yep.

Coming to America had a budget of 38M and grossed 400M worldwide. It lost money (like I said, due to wonky accounting practices*) on the studio's books.

FF cost 100M to make and grossed 400M worldwide. That's a flop- I guarantee you it's net profits finished in the red (see below).

*Those practices include using subsidiaries for nearly everything in the production/marketing/distribution and counting that against the gross. The movie may lose money, but the company makes it hand over fist. That is why, if you ever get involved in a Hollywood production, you either get your money paid in full before it shows once, or get your money out of the gross profits- there will be no net profits.

LOL figures.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not saying its a perfect explanation, but its definitely not crazy and way out there. It sounds like you're wanting some kind of concrete rational from something that never had that kind of thing in the first place.

And yet its much more of a stretch than the plotline I suggested before

Dannyalcatraz Post #55 this thread
After all, Reed Richards is constantly pushing the boundaries of super-science in his lab- perhaps one of his numerous attempts to alleviate the monstrosity of Ben Grim's condition could have gone awry...at the worst possible moment.

You know...he's got Ben in "Gadget X" running some tests, and the containment field goes wonky-jog. The inversion of the field is detected and RR shuts the machine down quickly, but not before the FF's powers are scrambled (unbeknownst to them at the time).

Then, before the discovery is made, SS & Big G show up, cosmic battle for fate of Earth ensues, RR uses the machine again to get Johnny all of their powers in one (as per the movie clip), and somehow Earth is off the menu in 90-120minutes.

This is something well within the established boundaries of the mythology of the characters involved (Ben's dissatisfaction with his life as the Thing, RR's multiple unsuccessful super-scientific attempts to change his friend's fate). It introduces no extraneous characters. It involves no arbitrary changes to any characters (other than the switch itself). It introduces no plot holes (like why not use this ability 100% of the time, or why the SS doesn't finish them off in their minutes of confusion).

Simple, neat, and non-arbitrary.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

You know...he's got Ben in "Gadget X" running some tests, and the containment field goes wonky-jog. The inversion of the field is detected and RR shuts the machine down quickly, but not before the FF's powers are scrambled (unbeknownst to them at the time).

This is something well within the established boundaries of the mythology of the characters involved (Ben's dissatisfaction with his life as the Thing, RR's multiple unsuccessful super-scientific attempts to change his friend's fate). It introduces no extraneous characters. It involves no arbitrary changes to any characters (other than the switch itself). It introduces no plot holes (like why not use this ability 100% of the time, or why the SS doesn't finish them off in their minutes of confusion).

Simple, neat, and non-arbitrary.

Its also something that has already been done. In the first movie(which, I believe, you said you didn't see), Reed DID create a machine to turn Ben back and it DID work...but Ben decided to return to his Thing form to help the others. That conflict was dealt with then, and bringing it back with the same kind of thing in the second movie is...well, bad writing.

And the plot holes you're claiming to see(again, in trailers), aren't nearly as concrete as you're claiming them to be. The changes are stated to be temporary, are SHOWN that way in the trailers, too. They are also said to be a side-effect of Johnny's encounter with the Surfer. Why doesn't he use this 100% of the time? Well, why doesn't the Surfer encounter the FF on every world? Not only that, but it seems that the ONLY person that this has a direct effect on is Johnny, with the others simply experiencing the switch because of him.

Maybe its something with Johnny specifically.

This is the Fantastic Four. Its all about crazy cosmic situations and weird science. Power switching as a side effect of the Fantastic Four(any one of them) fits in with that just fine.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Its also something that has already been done.

Fair enough.

OTOH, It was also done successfully more than once in the comics as well. Ben always had a reason to be the Thing...or vice versa.

And the plot holes you're claiming to see(again, in trailers), aren't nearly as concrete as you're claiming them to be. The changes are stated to be temporary, are SHOWN that way in the trailers, too.

I never said that they weren't temporary.

I just said that the screen-time in the trailers in which they're shown to be confused is more than enough time for them to be picked off by the SS.

The first thing Sue does is panic as she bursts into flames, then rises into the air, uncontrolled, like a big firey baloon. Zap. 1 down.

The first thing that Johnny does is try to flame on and he goes invisible, at which point he is jostled and run over by his fellow city-dwellers. Zap. 2 down.

The first thing that Reed does when he sees his screaming, flaming wife outside the window is nothing but gawp. Zap. 3 down.

For the record, I don't know what Ben's first act after the switcheroo is, but given that at this point, maybe 5 minutes have passed on the screen, and the FF is down to F One, the SS won't have to concentrate on anyone else but Mama Grimm's blue-eyed boy...

The holes remain just as big as ever.

They are also said to be a side-effect of Johnny's encounter with the Surfer. Why doesn't he use this 100% of the time? Well, why doesn't the Surfer encounter the FF on every world? Not only that, but it seems that the ONLY person that this has a direct effect on is Johnny, with the others simply experiencing the switch because of him.

1) This brings us back to my first post- its bad writing.

2) Even a cursory reading of the SS/Big G history reveals that they've encountered other cultures with very powerful defenders- on Earth, he's battled the Avengers, with members no less mutated than Johnny, and in other storylines, Big G has encountered the Shi'Ar Imperial Guard, the Kree and Skrulls and other races.

And in all of those worlds, with all of their supers- some with much less stable "DNA" than humans- only Johnny gets the contagious superpower flip-flop whammy?

I'm still not buying it, so I'm still not watching it.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'm still not buying it, so I'm still not watching it.

Okay. Forget everything else, because this seems to be the key.

If this is true...why the hell do you care so much? You didn't even see the first movie anyway. If you aren't going to SEE it it doesn't affect you AT ALL.

 

[Silver Moon]

The first thing that Reed does when he sees his screaming, flaming wife outside the window is nothing but gawp.

How can you fault a man for staring at Jessica Alba ?