D&D 5E No One Plays High Level?

[SteveC]

Just because your Pinto didn’t explode doesn’t mean they weren’t broken.

I just have to call this out as disingenuous. Coming from a game where we were running 3.5 at high levels (13) with all the options from WotC available, that was unplayable. The same group is now playing the same campaign in 5E and it runs at a totally acceptable level. That's not to say it couldn't run better (I would say PF2 would be better, but I'm biased) but it is a functional game that we're having fun with.

And, as I just slammed 3.5, I feel I should also say that I know people who managed to play 3.5 at high levels and had the same result: a working game.

We all have our perspectives, and I am not really even a big 5E fan, I just see that it is playable, and we are having a fun session. What we're seeing here is a lot of hyperbole (and my own comment about 3.5 counts, I'm not immune) and saying essentially "this is unworkable/unplayable" when the real answer is: this doesn't play to my table's tastes.

Yes, 5E has design issues that show up quite strong at high levels, but that doesn't mean it can't work or it doesn't.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The game is never going to spend significant amounts of money and effort to please a small minority. That's why they support 3PP products.

It might not be a small minority if they paid more attention to it and gave it more exposure. They won't, so I suppose we'll never know.

 

[Demetrios1453]

They've acknowledged that there need to be more support for high level games, we'll see where they go with it.

That's what makes this conversation pretty meaningless right now. They've repeatedly said that there will be more high-level support in the revision. Just yesterday, as I said earlier in the thread, they mentioned that the Vecna campaign will go to level 20, and that there will be significantly more high-CR monsters in the 2024 MM. So until we know what higher -level support will be in the 2024 revision, all this is pretty moot...

 

[Oofta]

It might not be a small minority if they paid more attention to it and gave it more exposure. They won't, so I suppose we'll never know.

I don't know if they have any access or insight into TSR's publication sales history. But that would be where I would start.

I have looked in to some 3PP stuff, and even purchased Collville's Strongholds and Followers but domain management is just such a different genre in many ways. Kind of like trying to have a combination of Monopoly and Risk in the same game.

You'd almost be better off doing what Dragonlance did having a separate board game for mass combat rather than try to shoe-horn it into the core game. Maybe they could do it, but it would require pretty significant demand. Theoretically we could see something after the dust from the 2024 edition settles down and they're doing domain management light with bastions. I just wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Minigiant]

That assumes anyone wants domain management in D&D. I've never met anyone in person who has expressed an interest

I don't want any such system at any level. It would lead the the gamifying some of the most fun RP of the game. Another thing I've only seen a small handful of people ask for and never in person

They would be optional and play and play for those who want it. Wizards of clothes made many setting books that I have no interest in but they still made them.

don't know what this means. Create organizations and populate it with NPCs

Bad guy organizations. How the operate. how they fight. Typical groups and squads you may encounter. Ways they counter common high level tactics. Custom spells and magic items they might have.

For example I typically run as a high level adventure a campaign of magical ships crude by planes jumping pirates. I have a system of what equipment their captains have and how their captains level up depending on how long it takes you to encounter them and when you encounter them. As well as the reasons why you can't simply blow up the ships nor teleport to them.

My cousin is currently dealing with the D&D versions of the Sinister Six.

 

[Minigiant]

That's what makes this conversation pretty meaningless right now. They've repeatedly said that there will be more high-level support in the revision. Just yesterday, as I said earlier in the thread, they mentioned that the Vecna campaign will go to level 20, and that there will be significantly more high-CR monsters in the 2024 MM. So until we know what higher -level support will be in the 2024 revision, all this is pretty moot...

WOTC doesn't have a good track record with high level content so it's still a wait and see.

 

[Oofta]

They would be optional and play and play for those who want it. Wizards of clothes made many setting books that I have no interest in but they still made them.


Bad guy organizations. How the operate. how they fight. Typical groups and squads you may encounter. Ways they counter common high level tactics. Custom spells and magic items they might have.

For example I typically run as a high level adventure a campaign of magical ships crude by planes jumping pirates. I have a system of what equipment their captains have and how their captains level up depending on how long it takes you to encounter them and when you encounter them. As well as the reasons why you can't simply blow up the ships nor teleport to them.

My cousin is currently dealing with the D&D versions of the Sinister Six.

Those are incredibly specific niches. Unlike TSR, most companies actually have to look at return on investment and whether or not something will be profitable. What you're asking for seems more like a DmsGuild product than anything in an official book.

 

[Minigiant]

Those are incredibly specific niches. Unlike TSR, most companies actually have to look at return on investment and whether or not something will be profitable. What you're asking for seems more like a DmsGuild product than anything in an official book.

Some of the books or content WOTC published were not niche?

You are saying domains couldn't fit in anywhere in 10 years?

 

[Oofta]

Some of the books or content WOTC published were not niche?

You are saying domains couldn't fit in anywhere in 10 years?

Is there a significant demand for domains? If WOTC wants to put out new material they're going to have UA articles and surveys, likely multiple rounds for something like that. Does the cost justify the possible return? Take into consideration the negatives of product bloat as well, something they are rightfully cautious of given the experience with the past 2 editions.

If I understand you, to want a systematic approach with the bad guys leveling based on encounters. That to me is incredibly niche, most people just use NPCs and monsters that are level appropriate and don't care about enemy ship captains leveling up. As far as stopping teleportation, if that's an issue just say that for purposes of inner sanctum a boat is a location and you're good to go.

 

[Demetrios1453]

WOTC doesn't have a good track record with high level content so it's still a wait and see.

"Wait and see" is the exact point of my post.