Non-Combat magic?

[Derren]

Now what context did I miss...or rather, what context are you now trying to apply to your plain statement?

I don't have to apply any specific context to that sentence as everyone who takes part in the discussion and is not just out to flame others like you understands it.

1. The question was about Animate Dead and Summon Demons.
2. D&D, especially 4E is build around the idea that the PCs are heroes (= the good guy) which is why they are considered wasted space in the MM (no, not everything revolves around your personal preferences)
3. NPC won't have written out "out of combat" abilities like, for example wishes or things like Animate Dead or Summon Demons unless they are used in combat. Such background abilities have to be made up by the DM when more details are required. Which means they don't follow rules.

 

[The Little Raven]

heroes (= the good guy)

I know English isn't your first language, so I'll just point out that this is not what hero means. Achilles was a hero, but he wasn't a good guy. Neither was Heracles or Beowulf or pretty much every other hero in mythology and legend. They're extraordinary people capable of legendary feats, not Mr Goody Two-Shoes.

3. NPC won't have written out "out of combat" abilities like, for example wishes or things like Animate Dead or Summon Demons unless they are used in combat. Such background abilities have to be made up by the DM when more details are required. Which means they don't follow rules.

Simply because some abilities that don't need rules aren't given rules does not mean that NPCs don't follow rules, which was the blanket statement you made. And anyway, rules for things that happen off-camera are just a waste of space in books designed to present rules for on-camera action.

To make your next attempt to flame easier I will now post a list off buzzwords you can take out of context and construct your next flame out of them

You seem to lack an understanding of what flaming is. If I called you a name, that would be flaming. Disagreeing with your factual wrong points and being willing to argue the point is not a flame, no matter how you try to dress it up.

 

[Rel]

Mourn, Derren: Stop the sniping at each other.

 

[NebtheNever]

NPC won't have written out "out of combat" abilities like, for example wishes or things like Animate Dead or Summon Demons unless they are used in combat. Such background abilities have to be made up by the DM when more details are required. Which means they don't follow rules.

I'm not entirely sure that this is true. The Lich template in the monster customization excerpt describes a ritual for creating the Lich's phylactery, for example. Now, the excerpt doesn't spell out the rules for this ritual, but given that we know rituals are a mechanic in the game, it stands to reason that there are, in fact, mechanics governing rituals that are intended for NPCs. Since rituals are a definitively out of combat thing, this would seem to suggest that NPCs do follows rules even when not trying to kill the PCs.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'd say that spider climb is likely to be a low level utility spell with the same "rest of the encounter or 5 minutes" thing that fly has.

If you want to climb around all day, take athletics.

If you want to regularly negotiate obstacles, have 1 person take athletics and carry plenty or rope. If you don't want to do that, prepare to get creative.

For the sake of the athletics skill, I hope there is never an all-day or at-will spider climb, flight or teleport at will spell or ritual.

 

[Andor]

I want a ritual for Maxwell Smart's Cone of Silence.

 

[hong]

Actually, I suspect spider climb will be a rogue ability, possibly at the paragon tier.

 

[brehobit]

I've just not seen a world/book where magic is only usable for combat. Seems very very far on the gamist/computer game model...

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I've just not seen a world/book where magic is only usable for combat. Seems very very far on the gamist/computer game model...

The rules are written for a very gamist purpose. Because... you know... its a game. The primary focus of the game is combat, so that is what most of the rules focus on. There is plenty of room for non-combat magic which, so long as it's not useful in combat probably has less need for hard and fast rules.

Also, I see no reason to disallow characters from using their combat abilities (magical or non) for non-combat purposes... Such as starting a campfire or opening a particularly stubborn jar.

Later
silver