non magic Bard

[daTim]

I have never been a fan of the Bard classes that have come out of WotC in 3e or 3.5 even. Too many of their abilities are redundant. Half their spells provide morale bonus's to attack/damage, when their songs do the same thing. This is something I worked on recently trying to make a "magicless" It is still a work in process, and may have some very limited spells added back into it somehow. Anyway, here is the basic breakdown.

Bard
BAB: Same
Saves: Same
Skills: Same


1 - Bardic Music, Bardic Knowledge, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspiration +1
2 -
3 -
4 - Inspiration +2
5 - Sneak Attack +1d6
6 - Suggestion,
7 -
8 - Inspiration +3
9 -
10 - Sneak Attack +2d6
11 -
12 - Inspiration +4, Sneak Attack +4d6, Song of Freedom
13 -
14 -
15 - Sneak Attack +3d6
16 - Inspiration +5
17 -
18 - Mass Suggestion,
19 -
20 - Inspiration +6, Sneak Attack +4d6

Inspiration: This bonus may be applied several ways as listed below. Each use lasts as long as the bard sings, and 5 rounds thereafter. One person per 3 bard levels may be inspired on each song. You choose what each recepient recieves be it Competence, Courage, Heroics or Magics, when the song begins and it cannot be changed until the songs effects end.

Competence - Gain the morale listed bonus to Skill Checks

Courage - Gain the listed morale bonus to Attack, Damage and saves against fear

Heroics - Gain the listed morale bonus to Armor Class, and Saving Throws

Magics - Gain the listed morale bonus to Caster level checks, as well as the Concentration and Spellcraft skills



All feedback and suggestions are more than welcome!

 

[Cheiromancer]

A few points of clarification:

One person per three levels is usually rounded down, but I assume that the bard can inspire one person at 1st level. At what level can he inspire two people? 4th level? 6th level?

When multiple people are affected, do they all have the same inspiration? Or could the Fighter receive a boost to courage, the rogue a boost to heroics, and the wizard a boost to magics?

My initial impression is that this bard is too weak... I'll have to think about it more.

 

[daTim]

He can inspire one at first level, one at third level, one at sixth level etc. I never really liked it being dependant on perform ranks. Also, the Bard chooses who gets what type of bonus and people can have different ones, but it lasts until the song ends + 5 rounds and cant be changed until then. Sorta imagine the bard singing about the great fighter, then the deft rogue etc i suppose.

Yea it is kinda weak, but I cant really think of a way to make it better without making the singing too powerful, or adding too much sneak attack. Perhaps if I added bonus feats from a selection like, a few martial ones, some rogueish ones and some diplomatic ones to allow for more customization

 

[Arkhandus]

Well, firstly, remove or clarify the entries Bardic Music, Fascinate, Countersong, Suggestion, Song Of Freedom, and Mass Suggestion. You don't state whether they're anything like the regular bardic music ability or anything. And how does Perform factor into all this? Can a Bard with absolutely no ranks in Perform really inspire his or her allies so much with his complete and utter lack of musical/poetic ability?

I'd say give this modified Bard a bonus feat at 2nd, 7th, 11th, and 17th level. These can be any feats the Bard qualifies for. Otherwise, maybe you should boost the Hit Dice to d8s perhaps? Increases the Bard's prowess, versatility, or survivability after losing all those utilitarian spells.

How many times per day can Inspiration be used, and is there a maximum number of rounds it can be used in a row? (i.e. doesn't the bard get hoarse after singing loudly for a bit, or weary from playing an instrument for some time?) Balance the Inspiration effects, and specify a range/AoE for them. Each use of Inspiration should grant the same benefit to all allies, not different benefits for each ally; the Bard sings a motivational tune for Competence, a battle hymn for Courage, an epic ballad for Heroics, a meditative/focusing chant for Magical, or plays an appropriate instrument for such effects. Doesn't make in-game sense otherwise.

Competence should grant its morale bonus on all skill checks and ability checks. Courage should grant its morale bonus only to attack rolls and saves against fear. Heroics should grant its morale bonus on saving throws, and should grant a dodge bonus or luck bonus to AC. Magical should grant its morale bonus on Concentration, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device checks, as well as caster level checks and dispel checks.

I suggest you make Perform required for Inspiration somehow, such as requiring at least 3 ranks in Perform per point of Inspiration bonus to be granted. I.E. a Bard with only 6 ranks in Perform could never grant more than a +2 Inspiration bonus, until they gain more ranks in Perform. This would not replace the Bard-level-requirement for each Inspiration increase though, only add to it. Allow Bards to oppose eachother's music, such that, for instance, if the area of effect for one Bard's Inspiration overlaps the AoE of another Bard's Inspiration, they make opposed Perform checks each round to see which of their Inspirations takes effect in that area, negating the effect of the losing Bard's Inspiration in that area for the round. This would only apply when the Bards are granting different Inspiration benefits, i.e. a competence tune sounds rather different from a heroic tune, and the two would interfere with one another. This should be automatic though, since no one's gonna be inspired as two or more bards sing/play conflicting tunes that only interfere with the harmony and understanding of each tune (i.e. no way a mage is gonna benefit from a Magical Inspiration from his Bard ally if a rival Bard is simultaneously playing a chaotic battle hymn nearby).

 

[daTim]

Wow thanks, those were some really great suggestions! I am workign on revising a lot of the wording and am most likely going to add in those bonus feats.

 

[Merlion]

I dont really know about Sneak Attack for a bard. It doesnt really fit, to me.

And yea...if your removing all spells, its going to need some big boosts elsewhere.

I can understand the desire to have all the bardic stuff as songs, but the only thing that I've seen come close to pulling it off was Monte Cook's variant in Book of Eldritch Might 2. It has spellnotes, spellcords and spellmelodies that function somewhat like spells, but not quite, and that include both bardic music effects, and spell effects.

Me, I just envision the spells as songs and figure they should all have only verbal components.

Really, the only spells they have that overlap with their bardic music bonuses are Good Hope and Heroism.

 

[Merlion]

I do like the idea of an Inspiration that aids spellcasters though

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I like this idea. But I think it still might need a bit more of a boost, perhaps a d8 hit dice and maybe the perform (any one) skill for free at max ranks just for flavor sinces it's no longer required for "bardic music".

 

[mbrad100]

duno

bards are arcane classes how the hell do you change that you cant

 

[Arkhandus]

Well there's a pointless trolling post if ever I've seen one. Bad enough this thread's roughly 3 years old, and 2 years since last dredged up.

Don't Feed The Trolls, as they say. They'll steal your goats. And bridges.