Non-Spellcasters

[sithramir]

I understand that. I guess what i'm saying is that an added set of feats that can give those kind of powers might really make a difference.

Nowadays when you make a character you can't get enough feats assuming you use all the books. I guess what i'm saying is that you need to add feats.

I, personally, love the new fey feats that give you spell like powers, etc. Things like that give flexibility which is one of the things a fighter needs. Things like the freedom of movement feat you came up with is what's needed. The reality though is that how does one compare a 40th level noncaster to a 40th level caster ESPECIALLY with epic spells? I suppose it may not be truly doable without making a change like using the warblade type of stuff.

What you see happening is exactly what happens in Sep's game. You suddenly add templates to make up for things like Spellwarped to get SR or half-celestial to give some boosts and spell like abilities, etc.

 

[Greybar]

Random idea inspired by a Vow of Poverty epic bonus in an arena game I was in. They were also trying to find someway to get flexibility into nonspellcasters.

What if you could get domain-like spellcasting (i.e. one spell of each level 1-9 or so) as if you were a caster of Caster Level = (ECL - 20). This means you'll never compete with them heads-up on casting by any means, but you can at least do small things like fly, prot energy, and the like on a more spontaneous level.

This was an add-on power for Vow of Poverty, since otherwise the VoP people who weren't spellcasters would quickly get outmanuvered by simple things like flight.

Like many of my posts in these threads, I know it isn't hard and concrete enough to put straight in and stand up to analysis, but I hope it has kernels you guys can use.

 

[GraysonEN]

So in the arms race between a grappling specialist and an escape specialist, the escape specialist wins? I guess some arms races can have winners.

(Long-time fan of Wyre, found this board, so figured I'd do my best to help out with this stuff )

One way to avoid the 'arms race' having a winner is to simply assign a very large bonus to the feat, instead of immunity. A +40 to Escape Artist checks would have the same effect as being immune to grappling, in the vast majority of cases.

One thing to keep in mind is that characters and creatures are far more likely to be specialized in an offensive tactic than a defensive one. The classic Hide vs Spot skill focuses came up in my game a while back - a rogue that wants to be very good at hiding is going to be able to easily get his skill to a point where it's virtually unbeatable. The only opponents capable of beating a +60 check are going to be ones that have done an equal amount of dedication to Spot, which is vastly less likely, since it's not nearly as useful. With this in mind, I nerfed Hide in Plain Sight, because it effectively becomes nearly unbeatable, short of using magic to gain Blindsight and such.

 

[GraysonEN]

Another reason is that the core classes should be playable at epic levels. They may need a little tinkering, but throwing them away and replacing them with classes from another book- that is a little extreme.

Throwing them away might not be the right answer for this project, but I'd definately agree that using the Bo9S for inspiration is a good idea.

The [Antimagic] feat idea is a great one, imo. It's got precedent with the Mage-Slayer feats, each of which reduces your caster level by 4.

A few ideas - Ex feats that give the ability to do things like Dimension Door as a swift action without disorientation (allowing the melee combatant to close the gap and still full attack), grant themselves very high SR against a single spell as an immediate action, or make impossible jump checks in order to reach flying enemies. Starting relatively low would be a useful way of building up to more powerful feats. An exmaple progression below.

Resilience [Epic][Antimagic]
Prerequisites: BAB +21, Improved Toughness, Epic Will
Benefit: Your repeated exposure to hostile magics has inured your body to such an extent that you're capable of resisting them. As an Immediate Action, you may grant yourself Spell Resistance equal to your Hit Dice + 18, which lasts until the beginning of your next turn. Each time you use this feat, you take 1 point of Constitution Damage.

Improved Resilience [Epic][Antimagic
Prerequisites: BAB +28, Resilience
Benefit: As an Immediate Action, you may surround yourself with an effect identical to that of an antimagic field, with the following two exceptions:
* Any magical item worn or carried by you continues to function, so long as it remains in your sole possession
* This ability affects only you and items carried by you, regardless of your contact with other creatures or items
This effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn. Each time you use this feat, you take 1 point of Constitution Damage.


The wording might need to be kicked around a bit (the exceptions seem like a bit of an awkward way to do things), but there's the general idea. The pre-requisites and the [Antimagic] tag make them very difficult for a caster to access and use. With HD+18 SR, at 22nd level, you're getting SR40. A caster with a CL of 22 base, with Epic Spell Penetration (+6), and an Ioun Stone (+1), is still going to need an 11 or better to hit you with a spell. A more typical caster with a mere CL of 22 at your level is going to need an 18.