non switchers: what can wotc do to win you back?

[malkav666]

I won't be back for 4th edition D&D. I don't care for the game and thusly have no intent of spending any of the money I earn on it. I may play it with one of my gaming groups if they foot the bill for materials, and ran the game. But I don't think I will have to worry about that. Pathfinder hit pretty hard in my local scene and both of the groups that I personally know members that play at my FLGS that were playing 4e switched to PFRPG the day it released. I think there may still be a few hold out groups left over, but none of the gamers that I hang with are playing 4e at all now (and that is about 50 folks).

I am not mad at WOTC. I was a little miffed about the old edition PDFs getting axed (mainly because I lost some dolars due in part to my own laziness, not DLing things I had paid for). It pretty much has to do with the fact that I think 4e is not a good system. I still buy saga books from them, I pick up a pack of tiles every now and again, and I buy middle-market mini singles.

As far as getting me on board for D&D? That would involve them making a game that I recognize as D&D. 4e does not fit into the my definition of how D&D should feel. So I voted a new edition would get me to look at D&D again. If it is good I will buy it. If it is more of what 4e offers, I will just pass on it.

love,

malkav

 

[NiTessine]

To win me back as a customer, WotC would have to issue a public statement admitting their numerous mistakes and apologising for them. Then they'd have to bring PDFs of the old editions back on RPG Now and Paizo.com.

After that, I could consider buying the novels or Star Wars Saga books again.

To get me to play 4E, they'd have to do the above and pay me by the hour.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Hmm...

I gathered from the build-up and eventual release of 4e that WoTC wasn't interested in having me as a customer. 4e strongly implied that I-- the older, experienced DM and player, the hobby OGL designer, the grognard with 30 years of calcified but cherished assumptions-- was not the target demographic.

Fair enough-- I'm a shrinking demographic and no sound foundation for a long-term mega-brand with serious strategic challenges.

It sucks to be "dumped" but in the end we parted amicably.

 

[delericho]

And by "winning you back" I meant as a customer. I was mostly thinking of D&D (any edition) but I guess other wotc products are also relevant.

When 5e comes out, I'll take a look. Though to win me back it will need to be a radical move away from 4e, probably a lot closer to 3e, and probably by an entirely different team. It's not that 4e is a bad game, it's just not for me.

That said, there are a couple of products that I would buy from WotC if they were to produce them (eg reprints of the 1st Ed rulebooks, in dead-tree form only), although I don't expect to see them ever see the light of day. I don't have any animosity towards them, just no interest in their current offering.

Edit: Of course, I forgot Star Wars Saga, for which I remain a current customer. I expect to remain a customer for that game, unless and until they put out another new edition (after five editions of Star Wars games, I'm now at the point where I won't buy into a new one, no matter how good).

 

[Remathilis]

I'm not sure what 5e could do to revive me as a customer. I'm afraid it would require too much backtracking for a company to take. That said, they could try a mix of things I thought worked with 4e and mix them with 3e (and earlier) ideas...

1.) Keep the will/encounter/daily system, but change up the ratios. Class powers that are needed to function become will (mages using magic bolts, rogues using SA). Encounters become their more useful guns (like rage or smite evil) and dailies the REAL big guns (spells mostly, but a few odd magical elements or even really strong melee attacks). Most importantly, build classes to fit the archetype, not the role/generic class structure (something the psion does nicely). Mages get more dailies and a few weak at-wills. Fighters get a couple at wills but loads of encounter-powers, etc.
2.) Adjust the hp/damage ratio so fights are more dynamic. Especially true of creatures designed to be terrifying.
3.) Go back to some from of unified attack progression/save progression. Tweak the math as needed, but get everyone off the 1/2 level treadmill. Its boring and adds to the "saminess."
4.) Fix the save mechanic so its not 50/50. It doesn't work as intended (save powers are useless against solos, while stunlock wizards rule the school).
5.) Give fighters back their plate armor, dang it!
6.) Don't build every class with combat in mind. That said, make sure every class has something to do in combat. Just don't make that the only factor when designing powers.
7.) Fix rituals so that they don't cost as much to use and are more versatile. Even if we have to go back to rituals/day.
8.) Return a few of the shut-down features (SR, DR, energy resist, crit-immunity) on some creatures to make them a bit more scary and force PCs to rethink their tactics.
9.) Forget WoW. Your never going to win a contest with them. While some of the WoW concepts worked (marking) a lot didn't (damage + status attacks). D&D worked for 30+ years before a lot of that. Make it FEEL like D&D, but with more sensible rule updates (akin to Pathfinder, but without the burden of keeping it 3e compatible). Want a hint WotC? Look at all the d20 OGL games, all the retro-clones, etc and see what elements they kept that remain true to every single one of them. THATS what defines D&D.

Will Wizard's listen? I doubt. I didn't think I'd be the guy looking at D&D pass me by, but for now, I feel more comfortable with OGL stuff like Pathfinder and Basic Fantasy; they feel more like D&D than D&D does these days...

 

[The Green Adam]

As someone who is primarily a fan of genres other then traditional medieval fantasy and games of a less crunchy nature, I slowly became disinterested in D&D around 25 years ago. As time went on this became more and more the case until I got back into D&D about 12 years ago. Then, with the publishing of 3.0 and later 3.5 I said, "Well, I'm not a D&D fan but if I had to play it this is what I'd use."

With the onset of 4th Edition, all my original reasons for not being interested in the game returned, combined with a preference for more independant games. I tend to prefer indie games in matters of style, subject matter, mechanics and in the business practices of the smaller companies.

Is there anything WotC could do to bring me back as a customer. No, I don't think so. It's not you WotC, its me. I've moved on and the ol' girl I fell in love with just isn't the same person anymore. But don't cry, we'll always have The Tomb of Horrors...

AD
Barking Alien

 

['Arry]

Nothing that I can think of.

It isn't that I'm angry with Wizards or am being vindictive, it is just that they are now producing a game that I do not find as enjoyable as 3.5/Pathfinder.

I agree with this. D&D has gone in a new direction with 4e; it's not a direction I like, so WotC can go their way and I'll go mine.

 

[Inferno!]

It's not really ill will. I still buy Star Wars stuff from WotC, and if they put out another game that I liked I'd pick it up, but right now my fantasy gaming needs are met by Paizo (as they basically were before the new edition).

This sums up my current situation. If they ever drop Star Wars Saga, then I'll no longer have any use for WotC.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I picked "nothing," but that's a little apocalyptical. It's possible that a 5E would be enough to bring me back, I just find it extremely unlikely that the direction WoTC would go with 5E would be any closer to what I want than 4E is.

I also adhered strictly to the OP's instructions. I am unhappy, currently, with WotC as a company, but changing that wasn't how I answered the question. (For the curious, "resuming PDF sales," "going OGL," and "apologizing" would have the best shot at getting my good will back.)

 

[celloshane]

SnipQUOTE]

That's incredibly close to what I want... consider yourself stalked.