D&D 5E Noob Question: Profantasy Software (Campaign Cartographer)

[Denalz]

Okay, so let me try to articulate my problem as coherently as possible...


I bought Campaign Cartographer 3 Plus (CC3+) a couple of years ago. Now that I'm actually DM'ing a D&D game I'd like to make maps for my home-brew game. I bought Fractal Terrains (FT) and what I hoped to be able to do was start by making an entire planet with FT, export the files to CC3+ to add continental/country detail, and then export those maps to eventually add in village level detail with City Designer(CD). Is this level of comprehensive detail even possible? I have scoured youtube looking for tutorial on how to do this but I'm just not finding the information I need.


My main hang up is that I want to be able to export particular islands and land masses generated on a world sized maps to the exact shape and scale across all three levels of detail so that it stays consistent. I can't be the only one who has desired this. Can anyone help me? I'd be very grateful!

 

[Oofta]

Okay, so let me try to articulate my problem as coherently as possible...


I bought Campaign Cartographer 3 Plus (CC3+) a couple of years ago. Now that I'm actually DM'ing a D&D game I'd like to make maps for my home-brew game. I bought Fractal Terrains (FT) and what I hoped to be able to do was start by making an entire planet with FT, export the files to CC3+ to add continental/country detail, and then export those maps to eventually add in village level detail with City Designer(CD). Is this level of comprehensive detail even possible? I have scoured youtube looking for tutorial on how to do this but I'm just not finding the information I need.


My main hang up is that I want to be able to export particular islands and land masses generated on a world sized maps to the exact shape and scale across all three levels of detail so that it stays consistent. I can't be the only one who has desired this. Can anyone help me? I'd be very grateful!

You mean something like they did in this tutorial? When I did it I just exported the entire map and then simply use different views of areas that I want to work on. Different levels of detail go on different layers, so I have a world/geography layer, down to a city/town layer. Specific towns (and dungeons) I just do in different maps, although IIRC you can link to the external files if you want.

I did this several years ago so I'm a little fuzzy on details. It is quite fun to be able to show people a globe version of the world and then "zoom in".

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Denalz]

Thank you for responding!

I actually watched all of those tutorials last night, loved them. They didn't answer all of my questions however. My main problem is that when I export the files in multiple map levels the program pre-cuts the map into sections based on symmetry. This is all well and good until I need to zoom in on a particular land mass and find out that the margins split straight through the particular piece of land I'm trying to add more detail to on CC3. Is there a way to set the margins myself so that this doesn't happen? Or better yet, just zoom in on the AO file on CC3 and have it automatically bring up the section that I specifically zoomed in on? (That is actually what I really want).

Finally, once I add all the detail I want on CC3, can I then export those files into City Designer to plot out specific villages and settlements? I just want the land marks to be exactly uniform at all levels of detail. Continuity is key.

 

[Oofta]

Well, I just exported my whole FT map in one fell swoop so I didn't have to worry about stitching them back together. The disadvantage of this strategy, of course, is that it's a good test of how fast your machine is when you first load the map. On the bright side I was able to convince my wife I needed a new PC because it was so slow.

As far as putting it into City Designer, that I have no clue. I have a city/town layer where I indicate the town itself, major roads, bodies of water and how much of the area around the city is farmed (a significant area BTW in most areas). But the city map? If I bother with a detailed map (I have fun making maps but lately I've just been doing "districts").

Don't know if anyone else has any other advice, this is a general D&D site you may get more feedback on profantasy site.

 

[Denalz]

You mean something like they did in this tutorial? When I did it I just exported the entire map and then simply use different views of areas that I want to work on. Different levels of detail go on different layers, so I have a world/geography layer, down to a city/town layer. Specific towns (and dungeons) I just do in different maps, although IIRC you can link to the external files if you want.

I did this several years ago so I'm a little fuzzy on details. It is quite fun to be able to show people a globe version of the world and then "zoom in".

Hopefully this helps.

Thank you for responding!

I actually watched all of those tutorials last night, loved them. They didn't answer all of my questions however. My main problem is that when I export the files in multiple map levels the program pre-cuts the map into sections based on symmetry. This is all well and good until I need to zoom in on a particular land mass and find out that the margins split straight through the particular piece of land I'm trying to add more detail to on CC3. Is there a way to set the margins myself so that this doesn't happen? Or better yet, just zoom in on the AO file on CC3 and have it automatically bring up the section that I specifically zoomed in on? (That is actually what I really want).

Finally, once I add all the detail I want on CC3, can I then export those files into City Designer to plot out specific villages and settlements? I just want the land marks to be exactly uniform at all levels of detail. Continuity is key.

 

[Soul Stigma]

Thank you for responding!

I actually watched all of those tutorials last night, loved them. They didn't answer all of my questions however. My main problem is that when I export the files in multiple map levels the program pre-cuts the map into sections based on symmetry. This is all well and good until I need to zoom in on a particular land mass and find out that the margins split straight through the particular piece of land I'm trying to add more detail to on CC3. Is there a way to set the margins myself so that this doesn't happen? Or better yet, just zoom in on the AO file on CC3 and have it automatically bring up the section that I specifically zoomed in on? (That is actually what I really want).

Finally, once I add all the detail I want on CC3, can I then export those files into City Designer to plot out specific villages and settlements? I just want the land marks to be exactly uniform at all levels of detail. Continuity is key.

I think they have a dedicated forum, too. Not saying "take it elsewhere", lol, just saying you may try there as well, and may get faster responses. I haven't used CC software in a long time so am of little help now.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[LordEntrails]

I'm pretty inexpert at CC, but I know what you're trying to do and I think it's all possible. But I don't have FT so haven't quite done what you are looking at.

As [MENTION=6887393]Soul Stigma[/MENTION] says, the PF forums are pretty good and friendly. Check them out at; http://forum.profantasy.com/

Also, I just bought the Tome of Ultimate Mapping and it has 75 pages just on Fractal Terrains. And it includes a section titled "Exporting to CC3+" So I suspect it has the details you need.

 

[Harzel]

Okay, so let me try to articulate my problem as coherently as possible...


I bought Campaign Cartographer 3 Plus (CC3+) a couple of years ago. Now that I'm actually DM'ing a D&D game I'd like to make maps for my home-brew game. I bought Fractal Terrains (FT) and what I hoped to be able to do was start by making an entire planet with FT, export the files to CC3+ to add continental/country detail, and then export those maps to eventually add in village level detail with City Designer(CD). Is this level of comprehensive detail even possible? I have scoured youtube looking for tutorial on how to do this but I'm just not finding the information I need.

My main hang up is that I want to be able to export particular islands and land masses generated on a world sized maps to the exact shape and scale across all three levels of detail so that it stays consistent. I can't be the only one who has desired this. Can anyone help me? I'd be very grateful!

Interesting that you should post this, as I just bought FT3 and CC3+ and have been trying to do essentially the same thing as you, except that I hadn't gotten to the point of even thinking about using CD (although I did buy it also). Here, in no particular order, are my opinions and learnings so far.

tl;dr - I have similar desires. I don't have any good answer for you, but I do have some tidbits, several rants, and I am experimenting with the intention of posting solutions if I find them.

1. ProFantasy documentation sucks. Actually 'sucks' is much too mild a word for it. It will be unfortunate if I ever meet any of their project managers, as I might be inclined to violence. Well, ok, maybe that is hyperbole, but they would certainly get an earful. Not that it would really accomplish anything, I expect.
2. ProFantasy UIs suck. <insert similar rant here>
3. 1 & 2 are unfortunate because I think I see glimmering behind the UI and documentation some software with which it is possible to do some cool stuff.
4. There are quite a few youtube and blog tutorials. Every one that I have watched generally addresses stuff that I easily figured out for myself already and leaves the interesting or hard questions unanswered. Nevertheless, it can be worth scouring them because once in a while you will find a hint about something that is inobvious and useful.
5. I also purchased ProFantasy's Tome of Ultimate Mapping. From what I have seen so far (which is admittedly not a thorough reading) about 90% of it is literal cut and paste, word for word, from the Help files that come with the products. Again, I have found a few extra worthwhile hints, but I am still incensed at having paid $20 for it.
6. The landmasses that FT randomly generates all have the mountains strictly in/near their centers. If you are not ok with that, then you are in for a lot more work. I don't consider the extra work a big drawback because I knew going in that I wanted to sculpt my continents by hand anyway.
7. My desired usage model for FT is to be able to draw the approximate shape, placement and geography of continents and then have FT add lovely fractal detail. Although a number of blogs and tutorials claim to show/explain how to do this, I have yet to find an explanation that is sufficiently detailed/complete and yields acceptable results.
8. W.r.t #7, I have tried the technique of generating an all sea world and then 'raising' and sculpting landmasses. However, I think that neither my initial world settings nor my sculpting techniques are very good yet. If I develop good ones, I will document and post them.
9. Also w.r.t. #7, I have tried FT's "Simple Create Mode", since it's description would make one think that it is designed to support exactly the usage model that I want. However, the results are puzzling - the generated land and sea have no fractal character whatsoever. I think one must be supposed to take another step of some kind that, of course, is not described in the documentation. I am going to post this question on the ProFantasy boards and will report back if I get a useful answer.
10. One hint I have seen is to use the fractal function "fBm with Perlin's improved noise". And indeed, it looks to me like this produces the best results if you are after an Earth-like world. One source recommended using "Wilbur Fractional Brownian Motion (fBm)" However, if you select this and then click out of the dialog, the choice reverts to "fBm with Perlin's improved noise". Maybe they are the same thing? idk
11. Another hint that I have seen is that if you want to be able to zoom in a lot, such as down to the village level (e.g., the image on your screen representing an area of like 0.5 mi x 0.5 mi.), then you need to increase the "Octaves" parameter of the fractal function to ~24. My limited experimentation so far indicates that this both is necessary and works.
12. The climate model that FT uses is too simple to produce realistic results. One very noticeable thing is that unless you crank the average rainfall way down you will never get any deserts, and very little grassland, chaparral, or savanna. So if you want realistic climate results, you'll have to do a lot of hand painting. From what I've seen I suspect that the best way to do this is to hand paint rainfall and perhaps modify the generated temperatures somewhat and then let FT do the climate mapping. But I haven't experimented with this in a controlled fashion yet.
13. When you export to CC, the color scheme needs to be the Default color scheme. (I haven't tried every last one, but I have tried several and none but Default have worked.) Others seem to produce blank screens in CC. (And if you use the Info>List function in CC, indeed you will see what appears to be a bunch of polygons with no vertices.)
14. If you were to want meaningful altitude contours for a highly zoomed region (e.g., 20 foot contours), it appears that there is a way to do this by creating a custom export definition working from the "Altitude High Detail" definition as a starting point. But I haven't tried this yet.
15. W.r.t. scultping landmasses in FT, one hint I found in a tutorial that was useful is to use the Raise/Lower Prescale Land Offset (instead of just Land Offset). And indeed, this does seem to work better.

Anyway, that's just my experience so far. I'll try to post as I find stuff out. If you find anything helpful, I would be eager to hear about it. Good luck.

 

[Harzel]

Thank you for responding!

I actually watched all of those tutorials last night, loved them. They didn't answer all of my questions however. My main problem is that when I export the files in multiple map levels the program pre-cuts the map into sections based on symmetry. This is all well and good until I need to zoom in on a particular land mass and find out that the margins split straight through the particular piece of land I'm trying to add more detail to on CC3. Is there a way to set the margins myself so that this doesn't happen? Or better yet, just zoom in on the AO file on CC3 and have it automatically bring up the section that I specifically zoomed in on? (That is actually what I really want).

Finally, once I add all the detail I want on CC3, can I then export those files into City Designer to plot out specific villages and settlements? I just want the land marks to be exactly uniform at all levels of detail. Continuity is key.

Oh, it looks like you are focused on a different aspect of the process than I am at the moment. I hope my response does not derail your thread.

 

[Harzel]

Oh two more things about FT (again from various tutorials):

1. If you are going to do any editing in FT, go to Map>World Settings>Editing, select "Custom" and enter a value like 4096. Otherwise, your editing will be very coarse grained.
2. When using a Paint function, at the bottom of the screen there will be three brush definition parameters: height, width, and 'value'. If you change one of these, the change does not take effect until you click in the text box for one of the other parameters.​