Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Not liking these surprise rules
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6330495" data-attributes="member: 6688858"><p>The surprise rules seem so clunky that I can't see them being used often.</p><p></p><p>Coming from 1e, I'm used to rolling for surprise for both sides almost every encounter. I like how it adds some variance to the initial encounter state, instead of it always being "you seem monsters about 30' ahead, roll initiative!". Sometimes the monsters get the jump on you and you have no time for ranged attacks, sometimes they come up from behind. Sometimes you see the monsters but it's clear they haven't noticed you yet. Surprise adds a nice spice to a simple combat system.</p><p></p><p>In 1e you roll a d6 for both sides and if it comes up 1 or 2, that side is surprised for that many segments. If both sides are surprised, you subtract the lower number from the higher and the side that rolled higher is surprised for the remainder. In 5e you have to roll a Dex vs. Wis check for every creature, against every other creature, with a creature being surprised only if it fails every check. That's 8 rolls for 4 vs. 4, and assuming a 50/50 chance to notice an enemy, only a 6.25% chance that an individual character will be surprised. It seems pointless to use this procedure unless it's just one PC scouting ahead, or one monster trying to surprise just one or two PCs.</p><p></p><p>Am I missing something or are the rules for surprise just not meant to be used outside of special situations?</p><p></p><p>I think side-based surprise should have been default for 5e since it's only pseudo-individual surprise anyways, ie if you make a great Dex check against an enemy's Wis, this doesn't mean anything until we check how everyone else did on your side, because your surprise on that enemy is nullified if they notice anyone else.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Libramarian, post: 6330495, member: 6688858"] The surprise rules seem so clunky that I can't see them being used often. Coming from 1e, I'm used to rolling for surprise for both sides almost every encounter. I like how it adds some variance to the initial encounter state, instead of it always being "you seem monsters about 30' ahead, roll initiative!". Sometimes the monsters get the jump on you and you have no time for ranged attacks, sometimes they come up from behind. Sometimes you see the monsters but it's clear they haven't noticed you yet. Surprise adds a nice spice to a simple combat system. In 1e you roll a d6 for both sides and if it comes up 1 or 2, that side is surprised for that many segments. If both sides are surprised, you subtract the lower number from the higher and the side that rolled higher is surprised for the remainder. In 5e you have to roll a Dex vs. Wis check for every creature, against every other creature, with a creature being surprised only if it fails every check. That's 8 rolls for 4 vs. 4, and assuming a 50/50 chance to notice an enemy, only a 6.25% chance that an individual character will be surprised. It seems pointless to use this procedure unless it's just one PC scouting ahead, or one monster trying to surprise just one or two PCs. Am I missing something or are the rules for surprise just not meant to be used outside of special situations? I think side-based surprise should have been default for 5e since it's only pseudo-individual surprise anyways, ie if you make a great Dex check against an enemy's Wis, this doesn't mean anything until we check how everyone else did on your side, because your surprise on that enemy is nullified if they notice anyone else. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Not liking these surprise rules
Top