[Novels] Sell me on sword and sorcery books

[Ringan]

Ok, my literary pedigree is as follows:

I read a lot of classics. Steppenwolf and The Brothers Karamazov and Kafka's works are among my favorite books. I also read fantasy, my favorites are the Song of Ice and Fire series, the Amber series and anything by Gaiman.

I think that sword & sorcery influenced some of these fantasy authors, especially Zelazny? I read a few of the Conan stories, as well as Ill Met in Lankhmar. I just couldn't get into them, they didn't seem to have much for character development or interesting, twisty plots; they mostly came off as novelizations of action movies.

Am I off base here? What do you like about the genre? Maybe I have been reading the wrong s&s stories? Or is s&s not for me?

 

[Teflon Billy]

I think you should try and judge books by what they are, not what they aren't. Which is do say, do they succeed at what they attempt.

I mean, saying that Conan the Conqueror compares unfavorably to The Brothers Karamazov is like complaining that Die Hard isn't Citizen Kane...both are classics of their genre.

Anyways, give Darkness Weaves and Dark Crusade by Karl Edward Wagner a try.

They are about the Immortal, Cursed Swordsman, Kane. Both books have plenty of political intriguing as well as dark sorcery, rich supporting characters, and bloody violence.

Darkeness Weaves is a grossly overlooked masterpiece of the genre in my opinion.

No Idea how it compares to The Brothers Karamazov

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Try Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, which is broken up into the following books:
Shadow of the Torturer
Claw of the Conciliator
Sword of the Lictor
Citadel of the Autarch

There are two trade paperbacks cover these four books, published as Shadow/Claw and Sword/Citadel.

I think Wolfe will satisfy your craving for depth in swords-n-sorcery.

 

[Wik]

Three words:

Clark.
Ashton.
Smith.

Seriously, check out his Zothique stuff, or the pseudo-france stuff that wound up in Castle Amber. (Averiogne?) There's a whole Database of his stories, which have been used in a variety of game settings.

Seriously, it's sword and sorcery, with the usual amount of faintly lovecraftian horror. In this story, we see Mordiggian, who wound up in Call of Cthulu (it's also an amazing story, and something i'd love to throw into a game!). And this one was used as a whole encounter near the end of Castle Amber (though the story is much better).

And this one makes me think of many classic D&D campaigns I've been in - two characters engaged in friendly rivalry during their "adventure".

Seriously, the guy is classic D&D, pretty much, and an influence on a lot of later fantasy writers.

 

[Imp]

Hmm, okay, I'm an English major snob and a Kafka fan too and I've had to answer this sort of question before.

My short reaction is that if you bounced off Ill Met In Lankhmar then it doesn't look good for your getting into sword and sorcery stuff; Leiber's one of the few fantasy authors I can still tolerate, and he's pretty uneven. (FWIW I was pretty disappointed in the Amber series the last time I reread it - mileage varies, etc. Similar reaction to rereading LOTR a few years back; The Hobbit is Tolkien's best book.) That said, The Lords of Quarmall, The Adept's Gambit, The Swords of Lankhmar (the novel-length one), and Lean Times in Lankhmar are my other favorite Fafhrd & Mouser stories, and are all more intricately plotted than Ill Met In Lankhmar, though plotting isn't really the point.

Asking this question here, you are probably going to get a whole lot of answers that you are going to have to take with a grain of salt.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

We have a lot of the same tastes. That being said, if you didn't get into Zelazny except for the Amber series you should read his Lord of Light novel. I found that to be an amazing book, although I didn't enjoy his other stuff as much. I like Gaiman, too, and enjoyed Stardust before they made it into a movie and would advise looking for that despite it being in a pseudo-comic book form. Also look for Gaiman's Sandman: The Dream Hunters.

 

[pawsplay]

Well, you're not going to get a ton of characterization in "a few stories." If you haven't read People of the Black Circle, a Conan story by Howard, do it. If you like it, read Hour of the Dragon (known by other titles, but it's the only Howard novel, so it won't be hard to identify).

You mentioned Conan generally... I hope to gosh you didn't read any non-Howard Conan stories. Even the writers who are decent in their own right just never seemed to get it right. De Camp, in particular, while a strong writer, wrote Conan all wrong.

Poul Anderson is fantastic, and Three Hearts and Three Lions is tremendous. If you like Song of Fire and Ice, I think you will find Anderson to your liking.

My favorte Leiber is still Swords and Deviltry.

I don't like Moorcock's work, on the whole, but I do like Corum, in particular. He has a gift for prose, but I don't find the Melnibonean milieu compelling or Elric's adventures infused with much drama. Corum, on the other hand, is a wonderfully moody character in a world awash with blood and savagery.

Jack Vance, of course, is Jack Vance. His Dying Earth books are both essential and quite weird. Now, if you just want a good book recommendation, I suggest Lyonesse, which is too recent to be ancestral to the books you mention. But it's Vance in top form, writing somewhat more conventional fantasy. The Dying Earth books, nonetheless, are where it's at if you want a historical perspective.

If you want to read L Sprague de Camp doing something right, check out the Unbeheaded King and the Compleat Enchanter.

 

[Melan]

I think you should try and judge books by what they are, not what they aren't. Which is do say, do they succeed at what they attempt.

What Teflon Billy wrote. Sword&Sorcery stories are an offshoot of adventure pulps, and they should be appreciated in that context. They do not have the soul-searching and long personality-building of Dostoyevskiy or, say, the personality dissection of Camus, but that's on purpose. They were the action movies of the age when movies were still in their infancy.

However, if you didn't get into Howard or Leiber, there are still writings you may appreciate. I second Wik's recommendation of Clark Ashton Smith, and would also add Lovecraft's Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath, a masterwork of surreal fantasy with its dreamscapes, exotic locales and uncaring, distant gods.

If you do not mind branching into more "mundane" genres, the historical fiction of Harold Lamb, particularly his Cossack tales, are highly recommended. Lamb pretty much defines "twisty plot", and he was an influence on Robert E. Howard - although virtually unknown today, he is very much his equal. A four-volume collection of these tales was published this spring; start with Wolf of the Steppes and buy the others if you like it.

On the same front, Talbot Mundy's Oriental and historical novels mix the plotting of pulps with more complex characters and a keen insight into human nature. In the first category, King -- of the Khyber Rifles is the one to read; in the second, I recommend the epic Tros of Samothrace, an immense historical novel set during Caesar's Gallic wars.

Neither of the two authors I just mentioned wrote "real" S&S, but they are close enough.

 

[rgard]

Try some of David Gemmell's works. I think the Waylander series would be a good start.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Darkwolf71]

I think that sword & sorcery influenced some of these fantasy authors, especially Zelazny? I read a few of the Conan stories, as well as Ill Met in Lankhmar. I just couldn't get into them, they didn't seem to have much for character development or interesting, twisty plots; they mostly came off as novelizations of action movies.

Sword and Sorcery books are, in fact, all about the action. Blood, swords, demons, monsters, battle. Manly men with big ass swords. If your looking for subtlties and deep thought, you won't be finding it in s&s.

Am I off base here? What do you like about the genre? Maybe I have been reading the wrong s&s stories? Or is s&s not for me ?

However, there are of course exeptions to the rules. You might give Robert Adams Horseclans series a try, assuming you can find them. Technically they are sci-fi books, but in a post-apocolyptic medieval flavored North America. So, they share many of the characteristics of classic sword & sorcery.