Yeah case in point - if you look at what Chris Perkins does with new players, he introduces them at level 3 AND generally gives them a cool magic item.
This is a session zero conversation though. Some players like level 1, others won't.
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
D&D 5E Observations of a new player
- Thread starter Xeviat
- Start date
Yeah case in point - if you look at what Chris Perkins does with new players, he introduces them at level 3 AND generally gives them a cool magic item.
This is a session zero conversation though. Some players like level 1, others won't.
Horwath
Legend
I'm refering mostly to "cleave" part of GWM feat.
With greatsword's 2d6+3 damage and CR 1/8 to 1/2 HP pools, you could get a lot of free extra attacks for 2d6+3 damage potentialy.
I hope Xeviat doesn't mind but I found this to be an interesting topic, and I'm a new player also, so I'm giving my two cents also.
I've played about 16 sessions so far, in an established veteran Dungeons and Dragons group (but they had only played one campaign of 5E before I joined).
I'm playing in two campaigns with separate DMs, who differ in magic items granted (one very little at all, one with more), type of adventure game and amount of non-monster XP granted. Typically we have 5 or 6 PCs at the table (once 7, once 3, three or four times we've had 4).
Our games seem to be a bit heavier on the exploration and especially role playing/dialog component than others I've read about. Typically we have two battles for a 4-5 hour session (but they seem to take a long time to resolve), from 1 to 3 fights normally (set as very tough fights according to the DMs). We roll for initiative each round of combat. We also only get one bonus action or reaction, not both.
My observations:
1) Tons of fun, wished I had played before.
2) The 5E rules are easy to follow if you spend time to read them. We use the 3 main books (with the DMs significantly adjusting monsters) which I now own and the book with alternate kits (don't own). The major issues on our table seem to be everyone figuring the correct initiative (which seems easy to me), flanking issues (we play with tape measurers and 1"=5'), and disengaging/opportunity attacks. Note this is only half the group, the other half doesn't have issues.
3) So far I've played an Elven Battlemaster (5th level) and Elven Eldritch Knight (4th level) - they are cousins in my lore (same gaming world and continent). I've enjoyed them both for different reasons - the Battlemaster can pick times to shine offensively and the Eldritch Knight has been super fun with Find Familiar, Protection from Evil and Good and Mage Hand. Especially the Find Familiar spell - so many role playing situations. I've been using Minor Illusion to let the Familiar "speak" to the party.
4) Classes I've seen played - Fighters (mine and Dwarven), Paladins (Dwarven and Human), Rogue (Human), Bards (3 different humans but 2 were one week players and one Half Elven), Cleric (Human and Dwarven), Monk (Half Elven), Sorcerer (Human). The DMs only allow Players Handbook species and no Tieflings or Dragonborn.
5) The vast consensus amongst the veteran players is that the two classes given the most "love" by the developers are Rogues and Bards. In my experience, and looking ahead in the rules, they are given a lot of great things...especially skills and bonus proficiencies. The Rogue being able to get out of combat so easily is huge for that class, and the Bards flexibility in spells and abilities is so useful. One DM plays a Bard in the game he isn't DMing in and the other DM plays the Rogue - they are also the most veteran players (20+ years each).
6) The Fighter becomes a lot more fun with the second attack. Looking ahead, it seems strange to me that the fourth Fighter attack is at 20th level, past Wizards getting spells like Wish and Meteor Storm. A lot of levels between 12th and 20th. My fighters do stand the most damage and I've only had one Fighter drop to 0 so far, between the Parry of Battlemaster, self healing in small amounts, heavy armor, hit points and Eldritch Knight Spells. I do enjoy not being dragged out of combat like some of the weaker party members.
7) At least in our campaigns so far, we've used some of the skills like Perception, History, Nature and Survival the most. Survival has been the number one skill across the board. Sadly my characters don't have it.
8) Our DMs don't like tracking money, so we don't bother with small monetary transactions - we accept that as untracked money. If it was something larger, then we'd have to do math to see if we have 90% of all the gems and money we've come across since the last purchase.
9) The War Priest is very strong with a second attack when your fights are 1-3 per day (we always have a rest before each session). I know they are limited to 4 or 5 depending on the Wisdom bonus, but if you are only having 10-12 rounds of combat in a night, they are great.
10) The Paladins are extremely powerful in combat - I know they'll be even stronger with more spell slots and if we are still only doing 2 fights a night, even if they are 5 rounds (our longest has been a 9 round fight).
11) Tactics make a huge difference - our Monk character usually has one of the best initiatives and wants to charge straight ahead and not wait for the rest of us. This is what leads to bad events. When the party stays together and supports each other, the game is a lot easier (and survivable).
12) As others have noted, a single monster (even if much nastier than the PCs) is nowhere near as hard as a 5-7 pack of enemies with a tougher captain or mage leading them.
13) I personally think the fighter should get something else early...even if it is only a +1 to hit in combat. It irks me that the bard is a +5 to hit (and that is with his secondary attribute), and I'm only a +6 to hit with my primary attribute.
14) Ask away if you have any questions....
I've played about 16 sessions so far, in an established veteran Dungeons and Dragons group (but they had only played one campaign of 5E before I joined).
I'm playing in two campaigns with separate DMs, who differ in magic items granted (one very little at all, one with more), type of adventure game and amount of non-monster XP granted. Typically we have 5 or 6 PCs at the table (once 7, once 3, three or four times we've had 4).
Our games seem to be a bit heavier on the exploration and especially role playing/dialog component than others I've read about. Typically we have two battles for a 4-5 hour session (but they seem to take a long time to resolve), from 1 to 3 fights normally (set as very tough fights according to the DMs). We roll for initiative each round of combat. We also only get one bonus action or reaction, not both.
My observations:
1) Tons of fun, wished I had played before.
2) The 5E rules are easy to follow if you spend time to read them. We use the 3 main books (with the DMs significantly adjusting monsters) which I now own and the book with alternate kits (don't own). The major issues on our table seem to be everyone figuring the correct initiative (which seems easy to me), flanking issues (we play with tape measurers and 1"=5'), and disengaging/opportunity attacks. Note this is only half the group, the other half doesn't have issues.
3) So far I've played an Elven Battlemaster (5th level) and Elven Eldritch Knight (4th level) - they are cousins in my lore (same gaming world and continent). I've enjoyed them both for different reasons - the Battlemaster can pick times to shine offensively and the Eldritch Knight has been super fun with Find Familiar, Protection from Evil and Good and Mage Hand. Especially the Find Familiar spell - so many role playing situations. I've been using Minor Illusion to let the Familiar "speak" to the party.
4) Classes I've seen played - Fighters (mine and Dwarven), Paladins (Dwarven and Human), Rogue (Human), Bards (3 different humans but 2 were one week players and one Half Elven), Cleric (Human and Dwarven), Monk (Half Elven), Sorcerer (Human). The DMs only allow Players Handbook species and no Tieflings or Dragonborn.
5) The vast consensus amongst the veteran players is that the two classes given the most "love" by the developers are Rogues and Bards. In my experience, and looking ahead in the rules, they are given a lot of great things...especially skills and bonus proficiencies. The Rogue being able to get out of combat so easily is huge for that class, and the Bards flexibility in spells and abilities is so useful. One DM plays a Bard in the game he isn't DMing in and the other DM plays the Rogue - they are also the most veteran players (20+ years each).
6) The Fighter becomes a lot more fun with the second attack. Looking ahead, it seems strange to me that the fourth Fighter attack is at 20th level, past Wizards getting spells like Wish and Meteor Storm. A lot of levels between 12th and 20th. My fighters do stand the most damage and I've only had one Fighter drop to 0 so far, between the Parry of Battlemaster, self healing in small amounts, heavy armor, hit points and Eldritch Knight Spells. I do enjoy not being dragged out of combat like some of the weaker party members.
7) At least in our campaigns so far, we've used some of the skills like Perception, History, Nature and Survival the most. Survival has been the number one skill across the board. Sadly my characters don't have it.
8) Our DMs don't like tracking money, so we don't bother with small monetary transactions - we accept that as untracked money. If it was something larger, then we'd have to do math to see if we have 90% of all the gems and money we've come across since the last purchase.
9) The War Priest is very strong with a second attack when your fights are 1-3 per day (we always have a rest before each session). I know they are limited to 4 or 5 depending on the Wisdom bonus, but if you are only having 10-12 rounds of combat in a night, they are great.
10) The Paladins are extremely powerful in combat - I know they'll be even stronger with more spell slots and if we are still only doing 2 fights a night, even if they are 5 rounds (our longest has been a 9 round fight).
11) Tactics make a huge difference - our Monk character usually has one of the best initiatives and wants to charge straight ahead and not wait for the rest of us. This is what leads to bad events. When the party stays together and supports each other, the game is a lot easier (and survivable).
12) As others have noted, a single monster (even if much nastier than the PCs) is nowhere near as hard as a 5-7 pack of enemies with a tougher captain or mage leading them.
13) I personally think the fighter should get something else early...even if it is only a +1 to hit in combat. It irks me that the bard is a +5 to hit (and that is with his secondary attribute), and I'm only a +6 to hit with my primary attribute.
14) Ask away if you have any questions....
Last edited:
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
GWM is best thing ever at level 1. With a greatsword you kill or have a good chance of killing any low level enemy you meet and hit. That means a bonus action attack at another immediately after. It's flipping amazing!
LordEntrails
Hero
There is only one really important rule as a DM, adapt to your players to maximize your group's fun.
Whatever that takes, regardless of what is written in any rule book, do it.
Whatever that takes, regardless of what is written in any rule book, do it.
Psikerlord#
Explorer
I find level 1 and 2 are some of the most fun levels - mainly because the game is still quite deadly at this level. I'd prefer the whole game closer to this level of deadliness, rather than the super resilience you gain as you go up.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
It may be fun to sometime play with half monster hp and double monster damage....
Rya.Reisender
Explorer
If you give out XP rewards by combat rather than by milestone then the PCs usually end up underleveled. That's my simple solution to keep the game deadly throughout the game.
Bacon Bits
Hero
This seems like a problem outside the scope of the game.
This is fine. Some players like to do stupid things in the game. It can frustrate the other players because Leroy Jenkins isn't the best companion in a dungeon, but it's usually a lot of fun for the DM.
Spell cards help a lot with this, or one of the phone/tablet character sheet apps for 5e.
It certainly can be, but that's really true for all levels of play until the PCs get a lot of magic items. You can always make weaker encounters (i.e., a party of 4 vs 1-2 Kobolds). Level 1 should last no more than 1 adventuring day, and level 2 should last no more than 2 adventuring days. It's built to go fast and get you to level 3.
Also, at low levels it's pretty easy to say that the enemies are attacking to subdue or capture. A level 1 Fighter is basically only a little more dangerous than a peasant with a club. It's reasonable to think that the first enemies you meet might just be trying to capture the PCs.
---
4e was explicitly designed to behave like the players start out at the equivalent of level 3-5 of earlier games to get to the "sweet spot" of levels 5-8 faster. That's why you get so many hit points at level 1 in 4e. The whole edition was supposed to be designed to feel like you were between level 5 and 8 for all 30 levels, with varying degrees of success (including varying from playgroup to playgroup). No other edition is like that, making 4e the odd man out.
I think enough people missed the old method of 1e-3e where you were very weak at level 1 and 2. It's also mechanically very easy to say, "You start play at level 3." It has the drawback of early encounters being very dangerous for new players and DMs, however, and that's what you've discovered here.
---
I think that's a side benefit. I think they decided to shorten level 1 and 2 because the players seem to like having them but everybody seems to want them to go by quickly. That happily meant that a la carte multiclassing suddenly had a hidden Level Adjustment +2 built into it for most classes.
The Human Target
Adventurer
It's very weird they made levels one and two the simple levels for new players but also the most brutally hard levels. And they don't last long either way.
Very wishy washy design.
Very wishy washy design.
