D&D 5E Observations

[Mistwell]

It's funny, most complaints about the game that I've read are that Lore Bard is overpowered, Clerics (usually Life) are overpowered, and Fighter-types tend to be underpowered. You found the opposite.

And the reasons given are usually...the buff spells, rather than the direct damage spells. Bless, Guidance, Faerie Fire, Vicious Mockery, etc. are all named as some of the most overpowered, and these are cleric and bard spells. There are more at higher levels, but just these basic cantrips and 1st level spells are often cited as overpowered. And yet...your spellcasters chose direct damage, because they felt overpowered by fighters taking a penalty to their attack rolls?

And you felt Light Clerics (who get heavy armor and shield, so 20 AC with just plain non-magic armor) had a bad AC? Bards depend on Valor vs. Lore of course. Valor gets higher AC, and my Lore Bard took a level of Cleric to get the heavier armor and shield.

Well, your experiences are different from mine (Bard is so far the most powerful I have noticed, with Cleric not too far behind, and Druid too). It's probably a sign the game is pretty well balanced I guess.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I've run a few solos and I find that legendary creatures make a much more entertaining and challenging fight than a non-legendary creature of any CR. HPs are not the issue so much as actions, and the extra actions do wonders not just to keep pressure on the PCs but also to move the creature into positions where they can't be easily attacked by all PCs on a given round.

So moving forward, I think I'll just give any solo encounter legendary actions, a few minions, or both. But I don't feel the need to boost their HP.

Ben

Yeah I give pretty much every solo the "legendary" template. Makes thos combats lots of fun rather than boring.

 

[Psikerlord#]

It's funny, most complaints about the game that I've read are that Lore Bard is overpowered, Clerics (usually Life) are overpowered, and Fighter-types tend to be underpowered. You found the opposite.

And the reasons given are usually...the buff spells, rather than the direct damage spells. Bless, Guidance, Faerie Fire, Vicious Mockery, etc. are all named as some of the most overpowered, and these are cleric and bard spells. There are more at higher levels, but just these basic cantrips and 1st level spells are often cited as overpowered. And yet...your spellcasters chose direct damage, because they felt overpowered by fighters taking a penalty to their attack rolls?

And you felt Light Clerics (who get heavy armor and shield, so 20 AC with just plain non-magic armor) had a bad AC? Bards depend on Valor vs. Lore of course. Valor gets higher AC, and my Lore Bard took a level of Cleric to get the heavier armor and shield.

Well, your experiences are different from mine (Bard is so far the most powerful I have noticed, with Cleric not too far behind, and Druid too). It's probably a sign the game is pretty well balanced I guess.

We put a "reverse ritual" rule on Guidance - you can only use it once every 10 mins in our game.

 

[CapnZapp]

It's funny, most complaints about the game that I've read are that Lore Bard is overpowered, Clerics (usually Life) are overpowered, and Fighter-types tend to be underpowered. You found the opposite.

And the reasons given are usually...the buff spells, rather than the direct damage spells. Bless, Guidance, Faerie Fire, Vicious Mockery, etc. are all named as some of the most overpowered, and these are cleric and bard spells. There are more at higher levels, but just these basic cantrips and 1st level spells are often cited as overpowered. And yet...your spellcasters chose direct damage, because they felt overpowered by fighters taking a penalty to their attack rolls?

And you felt Light Clerics (who get heavy armor and shield, so 20 AC with just plain non-magic armor) had a bad AC? Bards depend on Valor vs. Lore of course. Valor gets higher AC, and my Lore Bard took a level of Cleric to get the heavier armor and shield.

Well, your experiences are different from mine (Bard is so far the most powerful I have noticed, with Cleric not too far behind, and Druid too). It's probably a sign the game is pretty well balanced I guess.

Well, no, I don't think so.

Spells like Bless and Bard features like inspiration dice might be called overpowered... compared to other options of comparable level.

That doesn't necessarily mean those classes in themselves are overpowered. Especially since buff spells enable allies, rather than overshadow them.

Also, don't consider my anecdotal experience as the opposite of "underpowered fighters". In fact, I'm specifically calling out concern about run of the mill fightery types!

In the end, no, you should not take my post to mean "It's probably a sign the game is pretty well balanced I guess" when I'm saying the exact opposite.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, no, I don't think so.

Spells like Bless and Bard features like inspiration dice might be called overpowered... compared to other options of comparable level.

That doesn't necessarily mean those classes in themselves are overpowered. Especially since buff spells enable allies, rather than overshadow them.

Also, don't consider my anecdotal experience as the opposite of "underpowered fighters". In fact, I'm specifically calling out concern about run of the mill fightery types!

In the end, no, you should not take my post to mean "It's probably a sign the game is pretty well balanced I guess" when I'm saying the exact opposite.

Yes, I know you're saying the opposite. And I am stating that on the message boards I am seeing the two classes called out as weaker in this thread (Cleric and Bard) as being two of the strongest, and the fighter types as weakest. When you see reports saying each set is the weakest, and each set is the strongest, it's possibly a sign the game is well balanced. You disagree, but then I disagree with your disagreement

 

[CapnZapp]

No, I'm not saying that, so please stop drawing those conclusions.

What I am saying, or rather, what I am solicitating a discussion on, is how you feel you manage as a fighter if you don't happen to have double hp or stratospheric ac.

And, also, what kinds of spellcaster you feel is competitive, except the direct damage kind.

In no way should you conclude "everything's fine", not from my observations in any case.

If you could squeeze that conclusion out of a large grey rock, however... but that's not my problem.

 

[Celtavian]

I think classes are relatively well-balanced. I don't think PCs are very well balanced against the game world. The game world isn't very challenging for PCs using feats and magic items. You have to figure out a way to create challenging encounters for a party of PCs using both. Feats are not balanced against each other. Some feats are extremely good, some feats are useless for other than flavor reasons. It creates imbalanced options with class groups like a GWM or Sharpshooter fighter versus a TWF fighter. The same with a ranger. For overall usefulness in a party, I think every class brings something useful to the table. You won't be overshadowed as long you're making optimal choices for the class you play.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

And, also, what kinds of spellcaster you feel is competitive, except the direct damage kind.

Those who can cast one or more of Hypnotic Pattern, Planar Binding, Polymorph, Animate Dead, Conjure Elemental, Conjure Animals, Evard's Black Tentacles, Web, and Confusion. I'm probably overlooking a bunch.

 

[CapnZapp]

Those who can cast one or more of Hypnotic Pattern, Planar Binding, Polymorph, Animate Dead, Conjure Elemental, Conjure Animals, Evard's Black Tentacles, Web, and Confusion. I'm probably overlooking a bunch.

You could have phrased this "in my experience control casters work well"

There's no need to enumerate the actual spells. I do know the game; thanks. And, as I said upthread, this kind of caster is one type we've identified as potentially viable.

 

[CapnZapp]

I think classes are relatively well-balanced. I don't think PCs are very well balanced against the game world. The game world isn't very challenging for PCs using feats and magic items. You have to figure out a way to create challenging encounters for a party of PCs using both. Feats are not balanced against each other. Some feats are extremely good, some feats are useless for other than flavor reasons. It creates imbalanced options with class groups like a GWM or Sharpshooter fighter versus a TWF fighter. The same with a ranger. For overall usefulness in a party, I think every class brings something useful to the table. You won't be overshadowed as long you're making optimal choices for the class you play.

Classes balanced, yes, sure, but that does little to help if then feats favor some builds but not others.

Sure you could play the game without feats, but for our group that's a no go. 5e is so light on system crunch as it is.

The issue of us vs the world might be real, but it's also not a problem since if an encounter featuring X monsters isn't a challenge, then one with X+1 is... Kidding of course, but for me, what I need the system to do is provide a menu of choices that all can lead to equal spotlight share without my direct intervention.

The vs the world part I can fix on the go. Sure it would be nice if published adventures were challenging right out the box, but it is a decidedly second priority, at least for me.