Odd penalties and ECL.

[Ivanova_Valenkov]

I have 2 questions concerning building a player class, and its impact on ECL..

1st Scenario:
Lets start with a clean slate, pure unfettered humaniod. All stats 10, not penalties or bonuses, medium size. Now, suppose I tack on a penalty. Specifically, lets remove all vocal capabilities:
Can't cast certain spells.
VERY hard to communicate.
Some skills useless (in most circumstances) like bluff, diplomacy etc..
Can't activate some magical items.

What would the ECL be for this character, as I think it would open up some very interesting role-playing..

2nd Scenario:
Lets start with another clean slate.. you get the drill. The penalty would be a dietary one. Things like the following come to mind (these are seperate scenarios--all of these limitations at once would be ridiculous!):
Can't drink water--poisionous; instead you must drink oil, or blood.
Must consume a large portion of sulphur (much as we must eat sodium to live).
Must consume the flesh of fey.


Well, I hope to see some interesting answers.. Thank you in advance.

 

[Deset Gled]

There is no such thing as a negative level adjustment. Nor should there be, as it would wreak havoc on spellcasting classes, as well as prestige classes, not to mention the weirdness that would start with epic things.

Considering that, no one would have a reason to play those races unless they gave some other benefits, and it is pretty much impossible to judge how bad those penalties are without knowing what you get in return. For example, casting penalties are meaningless if the race makes an amazing warrior. If you want to describe what you are creating more completely, I could give a more specific response.

 

[kreynolds]

There is no such thing as a negative level adjustment.

The "vow" feats in the BoED (I always think Book of Erotic Darkness when I see or type that) are basically superfeats, that if not for the penalties, would definately impose level adjustments. In essence, they have negative level adjustments to "counter" (and I use that term loosely) the level adjustments.

 

[Ivanova_Valenkov]

I'm kind of looking for a negative ECL, so I can arrange a proper bonus to using such races. However, until I somehow figure out the general impact of being silent, I can not arrange a proper bonus.

God only knows what a silent character would do for a class (most likely not a spellcaster, but I was planning to arrange a bonus, so being a silent based spellcaster would be just as good as a normal, human one...).

 

[Saeviomagy]

I have 2 questions concerning building a player class, and its impact on ECL..
What would the ECL be for this character, as I think it would open up some very interesting role-playing..

If that's why you want the race, then you don't need any ECL modifier. Furthermore, the penalties for the race are basically ones which can be easily negated - if you play a fighter, then there is basically no penalty at all (as long as you work out a method for communicating with your adventuring buddies, which will be quite trivial). No ECL adjustment.

However - I might give the character some sort of racial benefits which directly make up for the disadvantages in order not to simply have penalties.

2nd Scenario:
Lets start with another clean slate.. you get the drill. The penalty would be a dietary one. Things like the following come to mind (these are seperate scenarios--all of these limitations at once would be ridiculous!):
Can't drink water--poisionous; instead you must drink oil, or blood.
Must consume a large portion of sulphur (much as we must eat sodium to live).
Must consume the flesh of fey.

All except the last one are basically nothing more that RP flaws, and as such get precisely zero benefits because they're really not that much worse than having to eat food and drink water. The last one is simply going to be unplayable and disruptive as the player in question constantly hunts for fey to eat, rather than doing the adventure or contributing to the group.

 

[Scion]

Look at a kobold. They are pretty effectively a -1 LA creature. Get ideas from there.

Go to savage species, see what they say makes a +LA, do the opposite.

When all is said and done -LA's are even harder to use properly than +LA's, and that is saying quite a bit.

If you have a race with a +LA and you want to cut it down do what I said above Eventually you will come up with something that is around where you want it to be.

(in the books it looks like favored class: any is supposed to be a benefit, just give the race favored class: none and this should be a huge penalty by that logic)