On WotC's "Surge"

Dausuul

Legend
Yeah, but as has been already said, I guess they have saturated the market. I'm one of those "holdouts" (a Pathfinder GM) who has started collecting minis just a couple of years ago, and these days I'm spending around 100-150 USD per month on them. Even if the price went up and the quality is a bit worse, I still consider them worth it; but, I've also noticed that it's probably better start buying singles online instead of randomized boxes. Yet I'm really sad about this announcement! :(

See, this is why the skirmish game was a vital element. As long as the skirmish game was going, it prevented saturation; just as with M:tG, there was always room for a new release to improve your army. That principle does not hold for RPG buyers.

I never played the skirmish game, but I still mourn its passing.
 

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UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I have a slightly different read on it. The original plan for 4E was to have a big digital component right out of the gate--remember Gleemax and all the hoopla over the VTT? Of course, as we all know, the company Wizards hired to build these wonderful things failed to deliver on their promises, and Wizards had to bring it all back in-house and (guessing here) pretty much start over from scratch.

In essence, they originally planned to go digital. That failed and they fell back on their old model from 3E. Now, with the old model going downhill, they're making a hasty bid to resurrect the digital plan in hopes that it can be made to work after all.
I think you are half right, I think that WoTC have long decided that the only way to go is digital and when the digital portion of the 4e launch did not happen they did what you said but when inhouse to redo the digital initiative. However, going digital is a lot harder than they though and they made a lot of typical newbie mistakes. I also strongly suspect that their corporate culture is one that is particularly inimical to good management practices of software development projects.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I am one of those that said that I don't buy crunch-based splat books because of DDI, although with the change to online only that throws a bit of a wrench into the works.

It may be that moving all crunch material to DDI will both increase subscriptions and sales of those books that they do publish - people will still want to buy books, after all.

The one big flaw in this hypothetical plan is the bad PR of strong-arming people into getting a DDI subscription which may result in more Pathfinder defections (actually, the thought crossed my mind as a serious option just recently).

Don't get me wrong - I for one do like having a comprehensive online source for all statistical material in the Compendium and the Character and Monster Builders but not at the expense of actual books, or at least the core rulebooks and setting/theme books. There is no substitution for a Player's Handbook or, more recently, a Rules Compendium. Call me old-fashioned but I like my books; I like pushing my desk chair a few feet in the direction of 7:30 and reaching for one of the 350+ game books on my shelves.

Books will not be fully superseded by newer technologies, imo. They may become more of a luxury item, but a book is not equivalent to a vinyl record or an eight track or a cassette tape or a compact disc. A book is a classic human object, like a violin or a candle. There are newer forms of making violin-like sounds or creating light, but people will always play violins and light candles (and read books by candle light). Again, maybe not on the same scale - the we will see more and more ebook readers on subways rather than disposable mass market paperbacks, but we're always going to have collectible items, hardcovers, and a wide range of books. I hope, at least!

This is related to what I feel is yet another misunderstanding on the part of WotC: most people that pirate PDFs don't do it at the expense of buying the hard-copy; in fact, what ends up happening is that they can better preview the material to decide whether they want to purchase the books. In this sense I never understand why WotC charged as much as they did for PDFs - their prices were why no one was buying them, not the existence of pirate copies; in fact, the prices partially drove people to the pirate copies - why spend $20 on a PDF when you can get it for free? Now if they had simply charged, say, 25% of the book price for PDFs--like an unnamed better-run companies does--they might have avoided the PDF/piracy debacle, partially through encouraging customer loyalty but also through recognizing the simple fact that a PDF costs a lot less to produce than a hardcover book. Instead WotC found a way--one of many, it turns out--to distance their fans.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
Is anyone familiar with Jack Stack and the Open Book Management movement (hint: it's more than sharing numbers)? I'm joining this conversation late, but the questions about WotC's management practices reminded me of this approach.
 

fumetti

First Post
FWIW, there is zero chance I will follow WOTC into any kind of digital game.

I won't pay the monthly fee.
I won't pay for pdfs.

I don't need books for nostalgia. I need their functionality and convenience.

It's a deal-breaker for me.
 

caudor

Adventurer
I like paper books too. However, I'm also big fan of the DDI. What I want from the DDI is not a replacement for paper. They just need to add:

Virtual Table so I can play with friends that happen to be anywhere. This is a biggie.

Integrate the other tools so I don't have type data into the VTT (character builder, monster stats, etc)

I think the DDI should be used to expand the game into the digital space, not to force players online to access game materials. It should appeal to both old-timers and the digital generation.

There is big differences in "I want to play online" vs "I have to play online".

More choices probably means more players.
 
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TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
Just cross posting this:

ICv2 - Rolling for Initiative--Oh, By the Way...

Confirms the issues we have been discussing.

Also, one thing has really struck me. I mean, it has been mentioned many times, but still:

Paizo can make money from print products.

I don't really know if WotC is pushing everything to the DDI because its some kind of general inevitability, or the DDI itself is just undermining their books.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
I don't really know if WotC is pushing everything to the DDI because its some kind of general inevitability, or the DDI itself is just undermining their books.
I suspect all three,
I suspect that DDI is probably canabalising the sales of some books, particularly crunch heavy power books and the like but also that DDI is more profitable than books. In that case the opportunity cost thing really comes into play.
 

kristov

Explorer
WOTC has completely mis-judged the whole combating piracy effort and is in a downward spiral.

Less product = less money = fewer employees = less product

It was a good run - but now the suits are running the show and it is the end my friend.
 

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024
I suspect all three,
I suspect that DDI is probably canabalising the sales of some books, particularly crunch heavy power books and the like but also that DDI is more profitable than books. In that case the opportunity cost thing really comes into play.

Well, profit at the margin. Who knows if the sunk cost for the 3D VT are included.

As I think about it, its really specifically the CB. If you buy a book for something in it, you then expect it to be in the CB. If it was just the compendium, you could then delay updates or something to give an extra incentive to get the print product, but with the CB that won't work.

Another idea that I floated before: coupons in books for the DDI, or coupons for DDI subscribers for the print products.
 

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