Once per day non-magical effects destroy suspension of disbelief

[frankthedm]

The absolute maximum number of daily powers available to such a character is 11.

How was that maximum arrived at? Character level charts only gives a 30th level character 4 daily powers.

Also, charging HP and surges is not something that will work if just tacked on. It has to be built into the system from the ground up, otherwise some people will be suicidally spamming super attacks.

 

[Zurai]

How was that maximum arrived at? Character level charts only gives a 30th level character 4 daily powers.

4 daily attack powers and 7 daily utility powers.

Also, charging HP and surges is not something that will work if just tacked on. It has to be built into the system from the ground up, otherwise some people will be suicidally spamming super attacks.

It wouldn't work at all within the 4E framework. You'd have to do a significant re-design of the entire power system to get it to work. It's not worthwhile and, furthermore, it creates a lot of complexity in the game system while removing flexibility and playability. Generally, that's considered a bad thing.

 

[Umadin]

I'm just going to say I agree, it's lame. My question is how do I convince players that it isn't silly.

"You muster a torrent of power and you (do whatever)."

"Why the F*** can't I do that more then once?"

"Your character realizes that his (do whatever) muscles ache and require rest for tomarrow."

"...."

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm just going to say I agree, it's lame. My question is how do I convince players that it isn't silly.

"You muster a torrent of power and you (do whatever)."

"Why the F*** can't I do that more then once?"

"Your character realizes that his (do whatever) muscles ache and require rest for tomarrow."

"...."

Ask them if they've ever watched an action movie. Then ask them why Rambo didn't just punch the head off of every single guy he killed.

 

[WayneLigon]

I have to admit that this is the closest thing to a dealbreaker for me in the game as written than anything else. I can suspend my disbelief quite a ways - much more so than most people can, I think. Yet this idea of 1/day powers just isn't something I can rationalize very far. I can accept that some abilities and powers and such are not things you can spam all day long, but at the same time I can't see them being so restricted in this particular manner. Spells and prayers I can rationize under the system to a greater degree - spells and magical powers are often limited in weird ways just by the very nature of magic. Things like 'I hit him really, really hard' are not.

I would be much more accepting if, say, one had an allotment of more action points and had to spend an action point to use a '1/day'-level power. Yeah, you could then come back and say 'Well, why can I do Crushing Buttstrike' only four times a day (read: however many action points one would get under such a system and how often one would get more)?' The fact that you're doing a much more visible "expenditure of a finite amount of fortitude/willpower/opportunity I've created" would make it more palatable to me.

 

[Andor]

Ask them if they've ever watched an action movie. Then ask them why Rambo didn't just punch the head off of every single guy he killed.

And then explain to me why my character can't be the star of the entire series like in the Harry Potter books or LotR.

A game is not a movie is not a book. They have different requirements and using one to justify another is like giving me a picture of a glass of water and expecting it to cure my thirst.

 

[hong]

And then explain to me why my character can't be the star of the entire series like in the Harry Potter books or LotR.

... they're not?

A game is not a movie is not a book. They have different requirements and using one to justify another is like giving me a picture of a glass of water and expecting it to cure my thirst.

In MY day, generic food metaphors used peanut butter and ice cream, and we LIKED it.

 

[charlesatan]

And then explain to me why my character can't be the star of the entire series like in the Harry Potter books or LotR.

A game is not a movie is not a book. They have different requirements and using one to justify another is like giving me a picture of a glass of water and expecting it to cure my thirst.

The quote is valid if you're running a "cinematic" game. Why does Voltron not use his Blazing Sword at the start of the battle? (Or -insert favorite super robot/sentai/anime/action movie special move here-).

You're absolutely right, a game is not a movie or a book but there are elements you can take from those other mediums. And for the same reason, that's why some abilities work only 1/day--because it's a game and not a faithful simulation of real life or -insert favorite medium here-.

If you're looking for a meta-game explanation, those 1/day constraints are there for game balance.

As for in-game rationalization, it all depends on what you're willing to believe and your imagination. It might be that the move requires various specific conditions that are difficult to replicate in the same day (a combination of the opponent leaving himself/herself vulnerable, concentration/frame of mind, physical stamina, etc.). It could be an abstract form of fatigue (physical or mental) that is draining on the user and not drawn from one's hp or healing surge pool. Perhaps it's a psychological limitation--a technique you don't use as often lest others discover its weakness or find the perfect counter to it. Similarly, it can be a last-resort technique that your character can theoretically execute every single time but he/she wants to save it until he/she really needs it. Or it can be wushu cinematic and the technique is actually fatal if you perform it more than once a day. Or the technique might not be draining on the user but on the weapon (i.e. causing the weapon to shatter and break).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If you can't help otherwise, think this way:

- It is impossible for any human, regardless how trained, to kill a mighty beast like a dragon with nothing but a sword and a chain mail.

- Therefore, this guy must use some kind of magic that allows him to cheat reality.

- As a consequence, the Martial power source is a form of magic. Sword Magic, if you want. It is not arcane or divine, but it's certainly supernatural.

In the end, it is called a power source - very often in fantasy literature, power refers to magical or supernatural abilities, so Martial could also.

You can call this the Earthdawnization of D&D, if you like.

 

[Atropos]

Another view on this, is that the "daily power" is not so much an ability that the character consciously uses, but more of a special circumstance that simply allow the character to apply his natural skill. In narrativist RPG theory, these mechanics could be seen as "shared narrative authority", a controlled way of allowing the players to narrate events that normally fall under the GMs narrative domain.

In other words, the mechanics allow the players a little bit of the freedom to describe the outcome of attacks that normally only GMs enjoy, and the rules describing the powers, their damage and how often they can be used are metagame restrictions to prevent the players from simply declaring: "I win!". Thus, a "Dire Wolverine Strike" is not a special move that a Ranger has trained and perfected, in Kung-fu movie style, but an in-combat event that just occasionally happens when that character is fighting.