One Dark Night in Weeping Briar?

William Ronald

Explorer
Hearing some of these tales, my group must've been a well oiled machine to finish in four hours. Seven hours? Ugh!

Here in Phoenix, I played the bard but left after 3 and a half hours. We just finished up the first combat. My team was NOT a well oiled machine, but I still had fun.

To me, it seemed that some of the players struggled more than I did with their characters. It was my first time playing 4E, but I did read the first three core books.

Overall, I found the bard to be fun to play, and someone who really made a difference in supporting the party. One humorous moment came when I used a power to slide the quickling through a threatened square for a very good attack of opportunity. The allegro power was also very useful.
 

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Badwe

First Post
In total it ended up taking us six hours to complete. I initially had trepidation about paragon tier but having been up to level 9 in a home game i was able to digest most of the powers pretty quickly.

I was initially excited to see the tiles being used to make maps, but the village square turned out to be the best one. It seemed like the mapper was insistent on using ONLY DU2 streets of shadow. Now, the tile set is FINE but you really have no recourse for mixing and matching the sewer vs. streets side like you do for other tile sets.

I hope this isn't percieved as an insult but we had a 9 year old little girl (she came with her dad, awwww) and a 4e newbie play and they seemed to pick it up quite easily. Sure the barbarian didn't have quite enough metagame skill to know there would be 3 encounters and therefore rage once every encounter, and the little girl needed some help looking over all her powers, but everyone seemed to gel well.

The criticisms on the creature types do stand. The paladin (that's me!) really did seem to benefit deeply from the 30 ac, and the bear ended up being a slog fest, meanwhile being virtually unable to hit back. Frustrating for the DM, but the mezzodemon at the end, wit his abusrd AC and amazing ability to hit (and then RESTRAIN and give me a -2 penalty) meant that i was praying for a 16 or better WITH flanking to hit the bastard. Luckily, the troglodytes helped cover for their poor AC with their stink aura, and the little crab demons behaved as artillery should (move in close to them and they become much more manageable). By the end of the adventure i had 0 healing surges and 8 hp left, WHEW! it took us a long time to figure out we needed to focus on the mezzodemon's reflex to have a chance to beat him.

In conclusion, I think it was overall decently balanced. Even though I am a huge fan of dungeon tiles, I can't honestly see the reason they married so closely to a single tile set. When you get to print a map, it shouldn't be that much harder to generate an actual map, and even if it is then surely multiple tilesets could have been used to get a better indicator of a dark alter or the basement of a flour mill.

Despite all this, I had a blast and I made some new friends, so all complaints were discarded!
 

MortalPlague

Adventurer
I'm surprised with how many people think the adventure is terrible... I read through it, and I thought it seemed like fun. It's got a nice back story, and the combat encounters seem well flavored. I particularly thought the risk of the mill catching fire was a nice touch. I haven't looked over the encounters in detail yet as far as stats go, but at a glance they seemed to offer a nice balance of creatures (aside from the first, with its brutish content).

Caveat: I tend to enjoy running low level games. The 'save the village' thing is something I enjoy, so that may be influencing my thoughts on this one.
 

D'karr

Adventurer
I'm surprised with how many people think the adventure is terrible... I read through it, and I thought it seemed like fun. It's got a nice back story, and the combat encounters seem well flavored. I particularly thought the risk of the mill catching fire was a nice touch. I haven't looked over the encounters in detail yet as far as stats go, but at a glance they seemed to offer a nice balance of creatures (aside from the first, with its brutish content).

Caveat: I tend to enjoy running low level games. The 'save the village' thing is something I enjoy, so that may be influencing my thoughts on this one.

I ran this adventure several times leading to the gameday and several times on that day.

The adventure is not terrible, but it suffers from several things. The initial estimation of 2-3 hours is ridiculous. The players are getting Paragon Level characters from a book that they probably never saw, until that day. It will take time to get accustomed to what those characters can do, and do it efficiently. Add to that the fact that you are probably sitting 5 people that have never played together and you are adding a lot of unknowns to the mix.

The adventure itself has an interesting story, and some interesting challenges but they are poorly executed because the DM is rushed trying to get the whole adventure in a 3-4 hour time frame. The initial combat is against opponents with a ton of hit points, making the combat much longer and "uninteresting." Add to that the fact that some environmental factors make it harder to "hit" the creature and you have a grind in the making. This combat eats up so much time that the rest of the adventure suffers for it.

If you want to run this adventure I'd recommend the following:
[sblock]Let the players make their own characters. I'd rather play a character I know than one I just get handed and have to get acquainted with in 5 minutes. Pare down the hit points of the creatures in the initial combat. Eliminate the environmental factors (concealment). This will make that combat move faster.

Shorten the skill challenge. Instead of 8 successes make it 4. The target numbers are so low that the fact that you are even having a skill challenge is questionable. Make sure you determine what the players do with the girl before advancing.

Describe in vivid detail the location for the 2nd encounter. Make sure you mention the "fire hazard", but let the players know that this is the little girl's father's mill. They might not want to destroy it, specially if they suspect that the townsfolk are somewhere inside. Describe the mill stone, the platforms, etc. This encounter has some interesting terrain that can be used advantageously by both the creatures and the players.

Describe in vivid detail the location for the 3rd encounter. If the girl is with the party, have the Mezzodemon taunt her. Have the party really hate this creature. Use the creatures intelligently. Have the players use the terrain to their advantage. Make this combat interesting. You don't want a slugfest, like the first encounter.

End the adventure on a high note. Make it dramatic. If the players succeeded have them interact with the townsfolk, and specially the girl's parents. They are now the heroes of Weeping Briar. If they fail, make sure that they see the effect as the townsfolk are sacrificed, and the girl finally found and brought back to the altar. Maybe there is something dark to her, or maybe she pleads with them before she gets sacrificed too.

In the end make the choices, and circumstances the PCs face, significant.

[/sblock]
 

Dav

First Post
I'm not sure I'd agree about having the players make their own characters. If they get there just for the game day, that's just adding more time to the adventure, even if your other suggestion shorten the time. Especially since you're introducing Player's Handbook 2, people aren't going to know how to construct a PC using one of the new classes very quickly either, I think leaving you worse off than if you had a pregenerated character. Plus, for me personally, this was my first time playing 4th Edition (and doing an RPG in a couple years). If I had been asked or told to make a PC, I would've been lost.
 

D'karr

Adventurer
I'm not sure I'd agree about having the players make their own characters. If they get there just for the game day, that's just adding more time to the adventure, even if your other suggestion shorten the time. Especially since you're introducing Player's Handbook 2, people aren't going to know how to construct a PC using one of the new classes very quickly either, I think leaving you worse off than if you had a pregenerated character. Plus, for me personally, this was my first time playing 4th Edition (and doing an RPG in a couple years). If I had been asked or told to make a PC, I would've been lost.

Since the gameday has already passed, I'm assuming he is planning on running this, NOT as part of a gameday. Possibly for his gaming group. Therefore my comments.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
Given how many times we've commented on the slog/slowness of certain combats, and the WotC designers coming here and talking about it with us, I'm shocked that they would write an intro adventure for newbies that had these kinds of problems.

Marketing the game shouldn't be this hard.....
 

MortalPlague

Adventurer
Since the gameday has already passed, I'm assuming he is planning on running this, NOT as part of a gameday. Possibly for his gaming group. Therefore my comments.

A bit of both, actually. One of my local gaming shops is running a game day in May, and they wanted to run this one, so I volunteered. I do want to run it through with my regular group beforehand though, to get an idea of how it plays. I'll definitely take a long look at that first combat... maybe switching out some of the monsters would make things more interesting? Put in a couple of skirmishers in place of the troglodyte brutes?
 

Festivus

First Post
Given how many times we've commented on the slog/slowness of certain combats, and the WotC designers coming here and talking about it with us, I'm shocked that they would write an intro adventure for newbies that had these kinds of problems.

Marketing the game shouldn't be this hard.....

Just a bit of an example here, the delve night I had been struggling to get players to for the level 8, 10 and 11 recent delves I could never get more than 2 people to come to. This month I grabbed the delve book and started at level 1.... I had two tables running the first night, and a full table for the second and third. Well over half the players at the delve had never played 4E before, and after playing the level 1 delve many went and purchased a PHB.

While they don't all need to be low level... when dealing with unfamiliar characters and newish players it's better to have things less complex.
 

Shazman

Banned
Banned
The group I was in (I was the drow avenger) took SEVEN hours to finish this thing. 7 PM to 2 AM.

We even failed the skill challenge!

The first encounter took the longest, and the second one--well, the mill caught on fire. We got out there. The only good thing about the last encounter was that we freed the devil so we didn't have to fight him as well.

It was fun enough, but dragged on MUCH too long.

Welcome to 4E combat, where everything has too many hit points and every fight is long, drawn out slugfest.
 

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