One Man's Trash is Another Man's Treasure --on 3pp product "glut" 4e / 3e

[Aberzanzorax]

In reading Clarke's announcement about Necromancer games, the GSL versus OGL discussion has come up again.

A question occurred to me: "What was SO bad about the "glut' of schlock that accompanied the quality products early on in 3e's release?"

Another way to phrase it: "4e fans, would you prefer a TON of products for 4e (with the risk of a substantial amount of junk) or the somewhat scant amount that is being offerred presently by 3pps?"


I guess I just don't understand why it was such a big deal that there was junk out there that people had to look past in order to find the good stuff.


One last point: there is some "junk" out there that I like. There is some "quality" stuff out there that I hate.

E.G. I like just about anything to do with the fey. Not for everyone, and there were some "stinkers" in this regard on the market, but I happily bought them and have used large chunks of them for my games. Alternately, I'm not big on psionics at all. I'd play in a game with them, but I don't know them that well, and I don't really feel motivated to learn. There are some AWESOME psionics books out there, but in my mind, they'd be considered "glut" in the same way others might consider the fey books I like to be "glut"...completely worthless to me.


So, would it be better or worse if we had a ton of third party publishers for 4e, and why?

 

[malraux]

Junk is bad for the market. Because it stinks, no one buys it. Because no one buys it, it sits on the shelf. Because its still on the shelf, the retailer doesn't reorder more stuff (or he does and then the stinky stuff concentrates on the shelf). That's bad for business and for gamers. It also makes it hard for less in the know gamers to make a good choice, and discourages them when they make a bad one.

edit: In some ways, the PDF market does sidestep a lot of this, but even then, if there's too much crap its still hard to make a good choice.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Junk is bad for the market. Because it stinks, no one buys it. Because no one buys it, it sits on the shelf. Because its still on the shelf, the retailer doesn't reorder more stuff (or he does and then the stinky stuff concentrates on the shelf). That's bad for business and for gamers. It also makes it hard for less in the know gamers to make a good choice, and discourages them when they make a bad one.

Thd dreaded ditto post...

BUT...
and very important BUT here...

There was simply too much glut.

Even when there was a ton of quality print products, an average gamer could not afford even all of the quality stuff.

and that's where a lot of 'fanism' among the d20 crowd started to come in when you could only afford one or two books a month, were you going to wait for Malhavoc to come out with a new hardcover or buy three-six adventurers from Goodman?

Even with quality, there can be too much supply and not enough demand.

 

[Obryn]

Well, for starters...

(1) Actively bad products which don't sell well make distributors and bookstores more wary of stocking similar books.
(2) Bad products dilute the income among more parties, making it harder for good products to break even.
(3) Bad products make consumers wary of similar good products.

I'd rather have a small field of excellent choices than a large field of mostly-bad choices, personally.

-O

 

[Rechan]

(1) Actively bad products which don't sell well make distributors and bookstores more wary of stocking similar books.
(2) Bad products dilute the income among more parties, making it harder for good products to break even.
(3) Bad products make consumers wary of similar good products.

To add to this list:

(4) Bad products aimed at players make DMs wary of good products by virtue of it possibly being bad.

 

[Mistwell]

I would rather a glut of 4e 3rd party stuff with 80% of it garbage than zero 4e stuff.

Fortunately, it's neither. I would like more 4e stuff, but it's not zero right now.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I do not buy pdfs, nor are most 3pp products stocked here in Japan, but occasional forays onto RPGnow or other sites showed an incredible amount of products.

For me, who play ftf with a small group here, and do 90% of my playing online, a wide variety of 3pp products is a real hinderance. To play an online game, a baseline of products is important, and with bad products, or lots of products the rest of the group (specially the DM) ahs never seen, it is far easier to just use official WOTC sources, which I have done for years.

So yes, a few products that see wide distribution and are of high quality would have a far better chance of making it into my games.

 

[Crothian]

Those early days of 3e was a lot like Let's Make a Deal. You have the choice of three or fours books on similiar topics but only one was the right choice.

 

[Mistwell]

Those early days of 3e was a lot like Let's Make a Deal. You have the choice of three or fours books on similiar topics but only one was the right choice.

I agree. I remember enthusiastically buying Quintessential Fighter, reading through it looking for great new stuff for my new fighter to take...and thinking "Uhh, this stuff just doesn't work!"

That one purchase probably killed another five purchases I would have otherwise made. Because if the first product I bought was bad, I assumed everything else from other companies would be equally bad.

 

[Sacrificial Lamb]

There's no such thing as too much choice. I'd rather be the "discriminating customer" and have access to tons of different products out there, than to have little real product choice at all. If I'm not sure what to buy, then I do my research, and conduct product reviews. Besides, what might be "crap" to one person can be "gold" to another, so who am I to judge what products other people should have access to?