(One More Time) You Got Sci-Fi in my Fantasy!

[d4]

An interesting though just entered my mind.

What about Frank Herbert's Dune?

The whole setting is surrounded by high-tech, but somehow he manages to pull of the series of novels with very little combat outside of hand-to-hand knife fighting. Hmm...

i wouldn't say that's the same sort of thing we're talking about here.

Herbert created a world in which the idiosyncracies of the technology (personal shields, specifically) brought about a return of lower-tech combat styles, by making more "modern" methods ineffective.

additionally, the culture of the Empire enforced conventions that led to a more feudal, "pre-modern" sort of society -- but that was clearly intentional on the parts of the rulers.

Dune doesn't (to me, at least) seem to fall into the same category as Shadowrun or S3 or Dragonstar, when it comes to talking about "cross-genre" settings.

and for the record, i generally dislike cross-genre stuff. call me a genre purist. the only place i like seeing sci fi and fantasy mixing is in superhero RPGs, because there, it is a standard part of the genre. seeing spaceships in a fantasy game or wizards in a sci fi game is just too jarring for me. magic clothed up as "psionics" or "the Force" i can handle in a sci fi game -- but that leads me to dislike psionics in a fantasy world, because i associate it with sci fi.

 

[Zoatebix]

I remember there being a series of Sci-fi novels with massive planetoid spaceships and black-robed "mages" that were somehow politically important in the setting - but my knowledge of it is secondhand, and I don't know whether they actually used magic/psionics. That said, I had a GM that made several attempts at games in this setting (he had the first-hand knowledge) in several different systems, and eventually we ended up using d&d-style magic. Since I've never had the inclination to read those novels, and since our campaign has evolved significantly, I'm going to have to say that the GM's original vision and the author's setting didn't appeal to me - though we still have magic comingling with modern weapons and technological space travel in an 'alternate earth history' kind of game. So the original books and game-world = silly, but current cross-genre game = not silly.

Now I wish I'd read Shadowrun so I could participate in this debate more fully. I think that one can 'add' a cross-genre element to a world successfully - kind of how talents start being discovered in the late 1920s and 30s in Godlike; or even to an ongoing campaign, like how Andy Collins slowly insinuated Bloodlines into his campaign. Sometimes it doesn't matter how silly the explaination it is if you're in the right mood - sometimes, you wanna play RIFTS (thankfully, it's been a while. a looooooong while )

So sometimes it can work, and sometimes it doesn't need to work, but a lot of the time it's just really silly.
-z

ps - I'm up way too late. I hope I'm actually contributing soemthing...

 

[ciaran00]

Though we do not switch systems at all, the characters in my game tend to switch between Sernia, the Dark Sun world, and O.B.O., a 1986 world (complete with Reaganomics). I think it's all good fun. We use the call of cthulhu d20 book for gun rules. The rest is standard.

ciaran

 

[thullgrim]

Simon R Green's Deathstalker novels are psuedo-crossover. Combining High-tech weapons w/ a huge amount of hand-to-hand combat. Though 'magic' per day does not exist the amount of PSI in the setting more than makes up for it. I would love to run/play in that setting.

Thullgim

 

[Humanophile]

I've never crossed game systems, but I like jumping genres. So long as it's done well, I think that it helps to break up system monotony. (And let's face it, desptie Tolkien being the heart of D&D, I've had it up to my ears with psuedo-mediaeval european fantasy.)

That said, I'm wary of cross-genre for the sake of cross-genre. Rifts is the best example of "kitchen sink"iness, and after a bit the hodge-podge strained my suspension of disbelief. (Shadowrun has a slightly lesser form of this. While I really like the setting, and I'm willing to overlook that magic suddenly and conveniently "rushed back in", there are bits around the edges of the setting where the pieces were clearly forced together.)

But in D&D terms, while I'm wary tossing in a laser pistol "just because", I'm actually partial to savage or rennasaince tech over the standard. Again, so long as thought has been put both into how the genres interact and backstory consistency, I see no problem with spaceship wizards fighting Azatoth, or whatever other genre mangling you can think of.

 

[Silver Moon]

Interesting poll, I especially liked seeing:

I like to mix non-dnd horror in with my fantasy games. 24

Wow, 24 votes on that one! Our gaming group has always been big on out-of-game/out-of-character humor. In fact, that has always been one of the biggest criticisms of my Story Hours (even though I'll clearly make references at that point to it being Player/DM rather than character and also put the comment in italics.)


I like to mix westerns in with my fantasy games. 11

Wow, 11 votes for that one. As far as I knew, my groups Boot Hill/D&D hybrid campaign (the current Story Hour) was the only one. Nice to see there are more twisted minds out there.

 

[Desdichado]

Actually, JD, a musketball can indeed punch through plate mail. Although in retrospect it would have been more historically accurate to say matchlock. [snip]

Rather than argue, let's just say that there are numerous sources that suggest otherwise as well. Not being an expert on early firearms and their actual firing power, I can only refer to the sources of experts. You may very well be one, but quite frankly, I doubt it.

Your arguments about katanas, the Poles, and conquistadors each have significant flaws. [snip]

No, they don't. The only reason I brought them up is because you stated that such mixing (katanas and firearms, swords and tanks) make no sense in a fantasy campaign and could never happen. Clearly the historical record shows otherwise.

Before you accuse someone of having a poor understanding of a topic, you should check to see if you have an understanding of it. And as this is a thread about cross-genre clashes, this little debate should take place in a different thread, if at all.

Not at all, it is completely relevent to the topic at hand. And, if you knew all along about the Polish charge on the Panzer division and still said that it made no sense to actually happen, then I have to conclude that your understanding of history is flawed. Your reasoning is very modern -- that people always act in practical, effective ways. That simply isn't true; there's no reason to assume that swords, bullets and tanks can't co-exist, because history quite clearly shows that they do. Granted, swords are particularly futile against tanks, but that's not really the point.

 

[Desdichado]

Otherwise, Joshua is known for coming across as condescending, whether he means to or not is unknown for sure.

Am I? I do apologize.

That's not my intent. I was having a particularly bad day yesterday, having had a number of quite nasty discussions and follow-up emails trying to get people to do their job and not dump it in my lap; my poor attitude may have bled through a bit.

 

[Psion]

FWIW, I have never found Joshua generally condascending, but would have to concur that particular post was.

 

[Zoatebix]

I haven't found anything on George Parada's credentials as a historian, but I'm inclined to believe his assertion that Polish Cavalry charging armor with melee weapons is myth.

"One of the most successful cavalry charges took place at Krojanty, where elements of 18th Uhlans Regiment attacked and destroyed German infantry battalion only to be counterattacked by German armored unit. Uhlans attempted to withdraw and suffered heavy losses. This event lead to the story of Polish cavalry charges on panzers...Polish cavalry brigades never charged tanks with their sabres or lances as they were equipped with anti-tank weapons such as 37mm Bofors wz.36 (model 1936) anti-tank guns (that could penetrate 26mm armor at 600m at 30 degrees). The cavalry brigades were in the process of being reorganized into motorized brigades."
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/polcamp.htm

I have heard about grenade throwing mounted cossacks taking out a panzer division that was frozen on the steppes of the Ukraine in 1943. And a suprisingly percentage of German equipment, artiliy, and supplies were horse-drawn (in the 90s if I recall correctly) rather than motorized... but that's still far from a real-world 'cross-genre' phenomena...

There are genres and settings where it would be acceptable for a katana to slice through a tank - but they'd probably get lumped into a 'supers' category before 'fantasy' or even 'science fiction.'
-z