D&D 5E One of my players screwed up. Hard. How do I make it fun without doing a tpk? LMoP

[Cyrinishad]

I like the idea of turning the Flameskull into a unique NPC... I always enjoy turning a “mistake” by the PCs into another opportunity for a storyline. I’d give serious consideration to letting the Flameskull remain dormant after it is fully healed, and observe the PCs for a extended period of time... perhaps even have it save the Wizard if he gets knocked down to zero HP...

 

[Satyrn]

You got some excellent advice here. I think you should go with one of these:

1) have it show signs of regeneration, so the players know what they're gonna face and can act to avoid it. If that TPK then occurs, well gat's on all of them, not just the one player. And they'll have learned to pay attention to your clues in the future. And you'll have learned a new method for telegraphing a threat.

or

2) It doesn't have to be hostile again, and maybe the players can ally with it in some way. This'll teach your players that not everything is an enemy out to kill them. That, indeed, even enemies have the potential to be allies.


Actually, I think you should go with both options.

 

[hbarsquared]

This is why I like ENWorld.

 

[Kabouter Games]

You got some excellent advice here. I think you should go with one of these:

1) have it show signs of regeneration, so the players know what they're gonna face and can act to avoid it. If that TPK then occurs, well gat's on all of them, not just the one player. And they'll have learned to pay attention to your clues in the future. And you'll have learned a new method for telegraphing a threat.

or

2) It doesn't have to be hostile again, and maybe the players can ally with it in some way. This'll teach your players that not everything is an enemy out to kill them. That, indeed, even enemies have the potential to be allies.


Actually, I think you should go with both options.

THIS RIGHT HERE.

They're noobs. This is a golden opportunity to drive home some subtle (or not-so-subtle) lessons about not just being murderhobos.

 

[Charlaquin]

You got some excellent advice here. I think you should go with one of these:

1) have it show signs of regeneration, so the players know what they're gonna face and can act to avoid it. If that TPK then occurs, well gat's on all of them, not just the one player. And they'll have learned to pay attention to your clues in the future. And you'll have learned a new method for telegraphing a threat.

or

2) It doesn't have to be hostile again, and maybe the players can ally with it in some way. This'll teach your players that not everything is an enemy out to kill them. That, indeed, even enemies have the potential to be allies.


Actually, I think you should go with both options.

I think both is definitely the way to go. Telegraph the fact that he’s going to come back either way. Then if they pick up on it and decide to ditch him, or find a way to put him down permanently, problem solved. If they don’t, or better yet, if they decide to let him come back, make him not immediately hostle, and the PCs have the opportunity to gain a really cool NPC ally.

 

[CubicsRube]

As a general rule foreshadowing anything in an rpg that has a potential for severe consequences is a good idea. Imo, i consider it a fundamental gm skill.

Otherwise yeah, you could have it come back and be an annoying chatterbox npc. See planescape torment for details

 

[ccooke]

IIRC from LMoP, the flameskull is bound by ancient orders. Did the party take it out of the cavern it was in? Maybe its first objective will be to get back there, and all it does is melt the backpack and streak away to the forge cavern, cackling things like "Home" and "Tend the fires".
You could spend a little time thinking about just what its original binding was, and what the that actually means in the ruins of the present.

Sure, this will definitely let the party know that they have another nasty fight, but as long as the flameskull doesn't attack them right then, they'll have time to prepare for it. A little dread is good for the soul.

 

[ArchfiendBobbie]

You got some excellent advice here. I think you should go with one of these:

1) have it show signs of regeneration, so the players know what they're gonna face and can act to avoid it. If that TPK then occurs, well gat's on all of them, not just the one player. And they'll have learned to pay attention to your clues in the future. And you'll have learned a new method for telegraphing a threat.

or

2) It doesn't have to be hostile again, and maybe the players can ally with it in some way. This'll teach your players that not everything is an enemy out to kill them. That, indeed, even enemies have the potential to be allies.


Actually, I think you should go with both options.

This is a very good way of handling it. Especially as it can serve as a lesson to the PCs that they can actually redeem some enemies and build their list of allies.

A group I observed when I was learning turned an entire orc tribe into allies just by keeping in mind a similar lesson. This came in handy at the end of the campaign, when they needed the extra manpower to stop an undead army. Just imagine the looks on the faces of a group of holy warriors as an entire orc army crests the ridge behind them, then charges the very enemy they're about to be overrun by.

Teaching them to build alliances and recruit former enemies early can allow you to tell some truly epic-scale stories later on.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

My brilliant wizard, who rolled very poorly in trying to figure out what the flame skull is, decided to keep it as a souvenir.

In an hour, this thing is going to get all it's HP back. At that point, I could easily wipe out their half dead party. (Hell, this party are all noobs, I could probably for them all out with a single goblin and some bubblegum, if I really tried)

First, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a TPK. If you, as DM, try and find ways "around it", then you, imho, are robbing the players of both the chance to learn from their mistakes as well as cheapening the success of when the player has a PC get to mid to high level. But that's just my "Old Skool Killer-DM" thoughts on the game.

Second, sounds like you are making the "video game mechanics" assumption. In a video game, when some period of time tic's off, "POOF!" something can go from 0% to 100%; your Flame Skull, for example. Nothing in the books, as far as I can remember, touches on any specifics....this is a key feature of 5e; leaving the 'specifics' up to the individual DM. So, how I would run it, is that after about half hour, the wizard gets a Perception check to notice that some cracks that were there before, aren't there now. Then, after another turn (10 Minutes), another Perception to notice that the skull is getting warm. Etc...etc...etc...if the player/s don't clue in by the end of the hour, then yea...TPK comin' at'cha! This, to me, seems much more logical...from a campaign world POV.

I mean, with 5e's base "you are healed after a full nights rest", surely you don't describe it as "Ok, as soon as you stand up from your bed, your broken bones instantly knit, all your gashes and cuts dissappear in an instant, and your internal bleeding stops. Oh, and your right side, where you got flame breath'ed...heals over in about 2 seconds. You stretch, smile, and go down stairs to get some breakee".

PS: Remember, YOU don't cause TPK's...that's all on your players. Well, unless you did it on purpose, in which case, I guess it is on you.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=6924204]nitePhyyre[/MENTION]

How are you and your group approaching the game? Is it a wargame-y, puzzle-solving type experience? Then the player made a mistake, and having the flameskull regen and perhaps kill the PCs is part of the proces of improving player skill. For a really nice discussion of this style of D&Ding, I recommend this by Luke Crane.

If the approach is a more character or story-oriented experience, then this thread is full of good suggestions on how you can ameliorate the consequences without just breaking the rules.

For what it's worth, though, I wouldn't have the PCs redeem the skull without actually doing something redemptive (whether that involves holy water, or clerical prayer, or whatever). I don't think redemption should be hard in mechanical or resource terms, but I think it should at least require the players to engage the fiction and the storyline in a serious way.