D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Raiztt]

No. You're talking about a game where magic has always been a superpower - and a powerful, flexible, and basically cost and risk free one (especially since Unearthed Arcana almost 40 years ago). I'm suggesting games where you can have mundane characters who aren't there to basically hold the coats of the casters much of the time because D&D beyond level 4 is not one of those games.

Ya I don't really understand what it is you think I'm saying or why you're saying what you're saying. There are many examples of classes that never gain supernatural powers.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Ya I don't really understand what it is you think I'm saying or why you're saying what you're saying. There are many examples of classes that never gain supernatural powers.

And with those classes the question isn't whether they will end up holding the coats of the casters or at best being the bodyguards but at what level. Probably the closest to being good (outside 4e) was the UA/2e fighter that both did a lot of damage and was really resistant to magic.

 

[Chaosmancer]

But the problem with that is, the people who really really like non-magical warriors will say "that's not D&D" and we'll have the fanbase broken again. They'll flock to some other game, and WotC will panic over losing customers, and we'll get a 7e that will be even more polarized!

Maybe. I can't say for certain. But the game is constantly being dragged in that direction, simply by the weight of the rest of modern fantasy literature and media.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ya I don't allow that when I play D&D so I guess we agree to disagree. We just play very different games and have very different assumptions about, well, what D&D's base assumptions are.

You don't allow... what? Official Barbarian Subclasses?

 

[Remathilis]

Then which base class should be stuck as mundane? There needs to be a mundane class for the myriad of folks(and there are a lot of them) who like a purely mundane option.

Then bring back the warrior, expert and commoner classes. If people want to role play as NPCs, give them NPC classes. Let PC classes afford the power budget to do the amazing things needed to keep up with casters and fight powerful monsters.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why not? You are willing to believe that study gives you super powers, you are willing to believe that an unnatureal anger gives you super powers, you are willing to believe that martial arts training gives you super powers, why can't an unnatural devotion give you super powers?

What makes the devotion "unnatural"?

 

[Shardstone]

Almost 200 pages of people going "I don't understand your vision, so it shouldn't exist."

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ya I don't really understand what it is you think I'm saying or why you're saying what you're saying. There are many examples of classes that never gain supernatural powers.

Are you making that "classes that never gain supernatural powers" statement with or without counting subclasses?

If you are counting subclasses... then that is a lie. Every class has at least one subclass that has supernatural abilities.

If you are not counting them, then I would like to note that the Fighter has 6 out of 10 subclasses that have supernatural abilities and the Rogue has 3 out of 9 that are explicitly supernatural, and at leas tone more that could be argued.

 

[Chaosmancer]

What makes the devotion "unnatural"?

That it is intense enough to give someone super powers.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Then bring back the warrior, expert and commoner classes. If people want to role play as NPCs, give them NPC classes. Let PC classes afford the power budget to do the amazing things needed to keep up with casters and fight powerful monsters.

I think that there should be a Batman Rogue who's technically mundane - and I like the anti-mage fighter or barbarian as a concept.

But the "purely mundane" can't stick swords through dragonscale. There needs to be a level cap for the mundanes unless you're going right to JLA Batman types.