D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[Chaosmancer]

Regardless, supernatural power has to come from somewhere, or everyone would have it, and despite the "magical world" you keep talking about, the majority of people are not running around with supernatural abilities. What gives?

How many elves are running around without magic? What about Genasi, how many of them lack magic? Halflings, do halflings have anything supernatural about them, like, say, supernatural luck? Oh, I know, you are talking about the gnomes and firbolgs with their abilities to speak the tongue of animals and use illusion magic who are not running around with supernatural abilities, right?

What is this majority of people you are talking about?

 

[Chaosmancer]

There are all sorts of fantasy worlds. The question is which kind for d&d and that’s where the contention lies. That fantasy world precludes/allows things others want/don’t want in their d&d fantasy worlds.

Sure, but that boat sailed over a decade ago. That ship sailed the minute a wizard could be a street urchin who is good at math and pick-pocketed the correct book. The moment magic was simply a skill that could be learned, this concept that skill is magical was true. It is the source of the Bard, whose music is magical, and the source of the monk, whose martial arts are magical.

Does it mean some people can't have the fantasy world they want? Yes. But that is just something that was true the moment DnD was created.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, that is where you moved the goalposts to.

And besides, my warforged rogue and tiefling Fighter are supernatural beings with supernnatural abilities. Who are capable of learning supernatural techniques, while living in a supernatural world. Why do they also need an explicitly stated exterior force (other than the world itself) to justify being... supernatural?

Because everyone else does have such an explicitly stated exterior force. That's what the book says (or doesn't say), so that's the assumption of WotC 5e. Of course, in your own game you can do what you want.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That is a beautiful statement, truly. I assume this is the setting assumption you play by in your own games,, and it sounds awesome. But if you want a game to be generally taken in this way, to have these assumptions, then the game itself has to say that, and hopefully back it up with mechanics. Otherwise, it's your interpretation only. This is my only point.

But you refuse to allow the discussion of those mechanics, even though the game itself has said so multiple times. Heck we even have some of the mechanics, with the Rogue's ability to alter fate and Evasion. But you keep demanding ever more specific explanations that must be in the correct place, worded the correct way, or you refuse to believe it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How many elves are running around without magic? What about Genasi, how many of them lack magic? Halflings, do halflings have anything supernatural about them, like, say, supernatural luck? Oh, I know, you are talking about the gnomes and firbolgs with their abilities to speak the tongue of animals and use illusion magic who are not running around with supernatural abilities, right?

What is this majority of people you are talking about?

In most published settings, humans continue to comprise the majority population. In your own game, of course, you can do what you want.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Because everyone else does have such an explicitly stated exterior force. That's what the book says (or doesn't say), so that's the assumption of WotC 5e. Of course, in your own game you can do what you want.

What is the monk's exterior force? Ki? Their INTERNAL energy? That's not exterior. A Paladin's Devotion? Interior. Barbarian Rage? Interior.

So no, not every class as an exterior power source.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Believing so hard in a mythical planar Daddy that you gain the power to move stuff with your mind (traditional cleric) vs believing in yourself or a virtue so had you get it.

I prefer the option of the latter because it means I don't have to make a slave everytime I make a faith-based character. Sometimes I don't want to make a drow that has to lick lolth's toe fungus in order to cast smite someone.

Mod Note:

I’ll point out that some of your phrasing is very close to RW rhetoric to disparage religions. Let’s step back from that and be more careful with how your ideas are expressed.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But you refuse to allow the discussion of those mechanics, even though the game itself has said so multiple times. Heck we even have some of the mechanics, with the Rogue's ability to alter fate and Evasion. But you keep demanding ever more specific explanations that must be in the correct place, worded the correct way, or you refuse to believe it.

I was actually very clear about what explanation I was looking for. You keep insisting it isn't necessary, a position which rather insists that what I am asking for isn't there (even if you won't actually just say that).

We are at an impasse.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What is the monk's exterior force? Ki? Their INTERNAL energy? That's not exterior. A Paladin's Devotion? Interior. Barbarian Rage? Interior.

So no, not every class as an exterior power source.

Fair enough. Supernatural power source then.

 

[Chaosmancer]

In most published settings, humans continue to comprise the majority population. In your own game, of course, you can do what you want.

So where in the PHB does it state that the majority of humans don't have magic? That the majority of humans haven't studied wizardry, don't make warlock pacts, weren't born sorcerers, didn't learn druidic rites, don't act as clerics, don't learn monk martial arts, and never have barbarian rages? Please, tell me the page number that says that humans are not only the majority population of Dungeons and Dragons, but also that they are non-magical.