D&D 5E Only three pillars?

[Lanefan]

Can we include shopping scenes in this one?

Sure.

 

[Charlaquin]

Then by that criteria traditional RPGs only have one mode of play. If you mark the difference between modes of play as how the players interact with the rules, and there's only one way to interact with the rules, i.e. through the referee, then there's only one mode of play...the players interacting with the referee.

That’s the underlying supersystem I’ve mentioned twice now. The modes of play are the systems that overlay that supersystem.

 

[Lanefan]

Yeah.4 for me.
World-building is as important as the other three for me.

Hmmm - this opens up a distinction I hadn't thought of: pillars of play vs pillars of DMing. Up to now we've only been looking at pillars of play. Pillars of DMing might be a whole separate list.

 

[overgeeked]

That’s the underlying supersystem I’ve mentioned twice now. The modes of play are the systems that overlay that supersystem.

So what is the distinction you're trying to make? Because what you've presented so far just leads right back to there's only one mode of play by your own definition. What makes the subsystems distinct enough in your mind to make them unique and separate?

 

[Lanefan]

I get what people are reaching for with "downtime" but it seems like an odd catch all rather than a distinct category. It's also an odd framing as it implies that combat, exploration, and social would be the opposite of downtime, so "uptime." But what would uptime be, actively playing your character? Most of the listed downtime activities involve actively playing your character. Is downtime then "not out adventuring"?

Pretty much, yes; downtime covers most things that PCs do while not actively adventuring. Sometimes this overlaps with exploration, if investigation or info-gathering is involved.

If you're using any sort of lingering-injury rules, downtime can also include taking shelter in the field for a few days to recover.

But depending on how involved the systems and subsystems and how invested in those activities, they would be the uptime of certain campaigns while the fighting of monsters and delving of dungeons would be the less emphasized and therefore downtime activities.

I get where you're going, but I'm not sure that they have to be governed by different subsystems to be distinct. Combat is clearly a separate minigame, but exploration and social are basically skill checks, so governed by the same subsystem. But exploration and social interaction are clearly different activities.

Downtime doesn't need its own mechanical subsystem (other than, maybe, stronghold construction rules and gear-item-equipment pricing); it's generally more freeform than that.

One fuzzy guideline might be that if you're in what I call "rubber time", where time isn't measured nearly as carefully as when adventuring, you're probably in the downtime pillar.

 

[Lanefan]

Well yeah, I don’t think social ought to be considered its own mode of play. It’s an in-fiction activity that can occur in any mode of play.

Fair enough, but then under what other mode does negotiating with the Baron or other important diplomacy fall? It's not combat, it's not exploration, it's not downtime, it's not investigation...so what is it?

 

[Tonguez]

I think you could absolutely design mass combat to work within a downtime system if you wanted to. But yeah, it could easily merit its own independent mode of play. Just depends on design goals.

Mass Combat is an extension of Combat where Players just happen to be weilding ‘troops‘ as weapons instead of swords and spells.
otherwise is just Battlefield as Setting which sits in the ‘Pillar’ of GM fiat

 

[Reynard]

Mass Combat is an extension of Combat where Players just happen to be weilding ‘troops‘ as weapons instead of swords and spells.
otherwise is just Battlefield as Setting which sits in the ‘Pillar’ of GM fiat

Mass combat doesn't need to include the PCs in any capacity for it to be worth doing at the table. Sometimes the GM doesn't want to arbitrarily determine the outcome of a conflict that has broken out, whether or not the PCs are participants or not. So the group has a WAR! session and plays to find out what happens.

 

[cbwjm]

Sounds like some of thebstuff mentioned is simply a different part of the current pillars, like you have the adventuring level of the 3 pillars, the next block up might be domain level (mass combat, domain management & expansion).

Downtime might be its own block in each pillar as well, some of those downtime events can have you waking up penniless after having been mugged after a night of carousing.

 

[Robot Wrangler]

I'm new here, but I want to expand on what I previously posted.

Character building is definitely a different way to engage the rules than play at the table. You can do it on your own and it's kind of fun, so I definitely count it as "play." You definitely want this part of the game to be fun, not tedious.

Shenanigans is a pillar where you try to break the DM's world, or otherwise cause chaos. It could include any number of PC activities.

I'll add "Forum Posting" as another game that people play with the rules.