Oozes, Split ability, and Creature Size

[Tyrol]

Yesterday I encounted an Ooze with the Split ability for the first time since switching from 2nd edition 4 or 5 years ago. It was a Black pudding, a huge creature.

Unfortunately, controversy arose while battling with the ooze.

As the battle began, the wizard succeeded at a knowledge check and recalled that black pudding split when struck by piercing or slashing weapons. His character quickly informed us of his knowledge. As a Barbarian who only uses axes, this left me thinking hurriedly. From somewhere (I don't recall whose character suggested it), a suggestion quickly arose to force the ooze to split for multiple benefits. Splitting it would enable the wizard's area effect damage spells to hit multiple ooze targets, as well as reduce the ooze's size and therefore its grappling effectiveness (it had grappled another party member and was quickly decimating him). Actiing on this idea, my character attacked with his slashing axe, causing the ooze to split.

Here's where the controversy occurred. To the shock of the party, when the ooze split, the DM placed a second HUGE ooze on the battle board. The entire party had assumed the ooze would reduce in size when split (conservation of mass, as well as 2nd edition precedence, where oozes did decrease in size when split, but could also re-combine themselves into a single ooze). Obviously, the DM had a different interpretation of what is written in 3.5, noting that the Split ability did not mention a reduction in size,

The split ability reads:

Split (Ex): Slashing and piercing weapons deal no damage to a black pudding. Instead the creature splits into two identical puddings, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A pudding with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split and dies if reduced to 0 hit points.

Nowhere in the ooze subtype, split ability, or black pudding description does it suggest an ooze is reduced in size, nor does it explain the details of a size reduction (as one might expect).

Yet the HP, which some percieve as a reflection of size (HD could potentially determine ooze size?), were halved. It just didn't quite make sense to most of the party that the ooze would not reduce in size (even if this reduction only occurred after a number of splits, not just 1), especially because of the fact that they did reduce in size in previous editions (2nd). 3.5 and 3.0 appeared to be exactly the same, regarding the split ability, so the most recent edition with a clear distinction is 2nd.

Is there any clarification on Oozes, splitting, and size changes anywhere? If not, what do people think? Is there a topic buried somewhere discussing this?

Many thanks,

Tyrol

 

[dcollins]

That's not a bad observation, but the following occurs to me.

If you're thinking about conservation of mass/volume, then technically, when you reduce all 3 dimensions of a creature by half (length, width & height), then you've reduced the mass/volume down to one-eighth of what it started (1/2^3). So if you think you should be conserving mass and reducing the ooze size, then that sort of argues that you should be getting 8 copies of the smaller creature (not just 2).

Of course, as you say, Hit Dice (and hit points) more-or-less follow a function of just the length of the creature, so if you do that you wind up with x4 more hit points than you started out with. I suppose a reasonable House Rule would be to do something in the middle, say the ooze splits into 4 other oozes, each half-HD and one reduced size category of the original. That also has the advantage of taking up the same amount of floor space as the original ooze did.

 

[frankthedm]

3.0 the oozes each got the full current HP of the original, so things could be worse.

Think of it this way, the ooze kept just as much mass on your friend after it split so the grapple check did not go down. Both halves spread out and now are easier to roast.

Retooling oozes to act as swarms of microbes might be a good idea

 

[dcollins]

3.0 oozes did split into oozes with half hit points (see MM). That hasn't changed in 3.5.

 

[frankthedm]

3.0 oozes did split into oozes with half hit points (see MM). That hasn't changed in 3.5.

I could swear the printed 3.0 MM text for the black pudding gave the split oozed the same HP as the original. This may have been FAQ-ed over, but IIRC the text gave them each HP equal to the original.

 

[dcollins]

I'm looking at the text right now (still play only 3.0), and it's half hit points.

 

[Tyrol]

Thanks for the replies thus far.

The only thing that seems clear is that:
1) When an ooze is split it becomes TWO.
2) The resultant two oozes have half the remaining HP of the Ooze that is split.
3) The resultant two oozes are identical.

Do you think the DM is right? (an ooze split in two by a piercing/slashing weapon is always the same size as the original ooze, regardless of how many oozes it has split into.)
Or should split oozes reduce in size? (as they did in 2nd edition. Perhaps not with every split for 3.5, but at certain quantities of splitting, or size based on HD calculated into HP ranges)

 

[Darkness]

I'm looking at the text right now (still play only 3.0), and it's half hit points.

Yep. They did have one slight advantage compared to now, though: They only stopped splitting at 1 hp, not at 10 or less.

The MM doesn't indicate that any stats besides hp should be changed. I would like it, but I can understand that the additional book-keeping might sour a lot of people on the idea...

 

[RedShirtNo5]

The MM doesn't indicate that any stats besides hp should be changed. I would like it, but I can understand that the additional book-keeping might sour a lot of people on the idea...

I actually tried applying size-modifier effects as a house rule last time I ran a splittable ooze, and I can confirm it was a book-keeping nightmare. I'm never doing that again.

Even running it by the RAW, splitting can still be a hassle, particularly if you think the ooze might be able to ready an action, thereby modifying its initiative count.

Looking at it now, I would simply replace the splitting ability with something else, such as
-simple immunity to weapon damage (like a swarm)
-damage to weapons (weapon takes acid damage from the strike)
-acidic burst (e.g., if you strike with an edged weapon, you pierce the creature's outer membrane and release acid, make a Reflex save)

Finally, another possible house rule would be to permit parts of the creature to merge back together as a move-equilvalent action.

-RedShirt

 

[dcollins]

Do you think the DM is right? (an ooze split in two by a piercing/slashing weapon is always the same size as the original ooze, regardless of how many oozes it has split into.)

Yes, by the rules-as-written, "the creature splits into two identical puddings" with half hit points. Size category does not change.

My suggestion for a House Rule above would require precalculating stats for a bunch of smaller-sized oozes, which most DMs would certainly not have available in the middle of play.