Optional Combat Round System?

[Plane Sailing]

You could also make firearms threaten an area kind of like reach weapons, so that if someone closes from too far away the characters can shoot them as an AoO. It wouldn't be very helpful with high defense/HD melee attackers though.

I think that this would probably be the simplest and best solution, especially since as a game mechanic it would perform the task you want (i.e. charging someone with a readied gun is very risky, rather than a jolly good idea as it is at the moment).

Personally I'd give all guns a threatened area of, say, 20ft. Thus you can take an AoO with a gun against a target who provokes within 20ft of you. If you have combat reflexes you can take more than one AoO if they offer more than one provocation.

After all, if you charge someone with a longspear he can get a stab in at you, why shouldn't a guy with a gun get a shot, eh?

Cheers

 

[Kor]

I think the threatened area idea may indeed be the quickest and easiest fix. I'm going to experiement with some different methods tomorrow

 

[Masada]

Currently I do use a Vitality and Wounds system, however I found that criticals were pretty much guaranteed deaths... so what I did was make the first 1x of any critical apply against wounds and the rest I applied against vitality. Also since in firefights I was finding that criticals were fairly common I then decided that only "special NPC's" were capable of delivering criticals on the PC's. (These being the primary villians / bosses / leaders in the encounters). Enemys (aside from special NPC's) had only hit points, where-as the specials had vitality and wound points.

I'm having trouble picturing what realism you're trying to capture--other than possibly more shots per round. You've increased MDT so that players will almost never drop from massive damage. You've implemented VP/WP only you seem to have kept the "x2" damage modifiers (usually critical hits in the VP/WP system only do 1x damage... they just apply it to wounds). You've prevented most NPC's from ever scoring a crit on your players. So in this system the players are quite capable of charging straight in to mook gun fire with minimal to marginal negative impact. Once in melee they'll cut down opposition.

So are you trying to impose some realism about the suicidal nature of charging a machine gun? or about how many shots per round a good marksmen can fire in 6 seconds?

If you're concerned about the latter, then just assume that every attack is really multiple shots with the net effect being 2d6 damage. In an abstract system hits to Vitality don't always equal physical contact with a weapon or even a single attack. In D&D melee it is assumed that many strikes are attempted per round, the net effect is boiled down to a single roll. The same can be true for Modern. Just pick a number like 3 and say each round is really 3 shots represented by one damage roll. The Burst Fire feat can still be 3 shots with a tighter more accurate formation.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

If you have your gun 'at the ready,' that means you are using a readied action. In which case, yes, you will unload all over Mr. Knife's punk posterior.

Otherwise, you're concentrating on something else when he gets the chance to charge and, while your weapon isn't holstered, you still have to bring it around and aim. If you're already aiming at him, why isn't he dead?

Also, if you're 'unloading a clip,' you are NOT being accurate, and if he's fanatical enough to charge modern weapons with a knife and no body armor, there's a good chance he's fanatical enough to keep coming at you while your gun is banging in the air; sure, you MIGHT hit him with some of those bullets, but if they don't drop him, adrenaline is going to have him all up in your face, and since modern body armor is designed to stop bullets, that knife is serious trouble. Will he die after the encounter? Sure, but he's an NPC mook. Will YOU die during the encounter? Quite possibly.

About the only change I would make is to allow a character to ready a standard action while using his move action, to represent a squad of soldiers moving carefully through enemy territory with weapons at the ready. That would more accurately reflect the situation than allowing AoOs.

BTW, Crits in the UA, SWd20 and Spycraft VP/WP systems don't multiply damage.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

About the only change I would make is to allow a character to ready a standard action while using his move action, to represent a squad of soldiers moving carefully through enemy territory with weapons at the ready. That would more accurately reflect the situation than allowing AoOs.

Actually, that's how Ready already works. You take your move action and "ready" your Standard Action to go off when the specific condition is met.

So soldier moves onto battlefield expecting trouble ... he takes his move action and readies his Standard Action to "shoot any badguys attempting to close to melee" or whatever. Then, after his initiative count, the machete-weilding fanatics break from cover and charge him ... where-upon they get chewed up by gunfire.

Ready is a very under-utilized and misunderstood rule of the game ... opens up alot of power plays and "nods to realism" ... just most people don't want to find themselves SOL if instead of a guy with an axe, a guy with an SMG pops up and fires at you. You are gambling that action on the chance to interrupt/stop the other guy's action. I'm "ready", so I can shoot him when he closes. As opposed to, say, spending your concentration on movement that round and the guy bursting from cover to intercept.

--fje

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Actually, that's how Ready already works. You take your move action and "ready" your Standard Action to go off when the specific condition is met.

So soldier moves onto battlefield expecting trouble ... he takes his move action and readies his Standard Action to "shoot any badguys attempting to close to melee" or whatever. Then, after his initiative count, the machete-weilding fanatics break from cover and charge him ... where-upon they get chewed up by gunfire.

Ready is a very under-utilized and misunderstood rule of the game ... opens up alot of power plays and "nods to realism" ... just most people don't want to find themselves SOL if instead of a guy with an axe, a guy with an SMG pops up and fires at you. You are gambling that action on the chance to interrupt/stop the other guy's action. I'm "ready", so I can shoot him when he closes. As opposed to, say, spending your concentration on movement that round and the guy bursting from cover to intercept.

--fje

Is that how it works in 3e D&D, too?

My GMs never ran it that way, so I just ran it the same or officially HOUSERULED it... to the way it was in the book in the first place?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Is that how it works in 3e D&D, too?

My GMs never ran it that way, so I just ran it the same or officially HOUSERULED it... to the way it was in the book in the first place?

It works in D&D the same way, but the text explaining it is a little less clear on the fact.

Ready

The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).

Readying an Action

You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

Initiative Consequences of Readying

Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed your readied action, you don’t get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again). If you take your readied action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.
Distracting Spellcasters

You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell." If you damage the spellcaster, she may lose the spell she was trying to cast (as determined by her Concentration check result).
Readying to Counterspell

You may ready a counterspell against a spellcaster (often with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell"). In this case, when the spellcaster starts a spell, you get a chance to identify it with a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If you do, and if you can cast that same spell (are able to cast it and have it prepared, if you prepare spells), you can cast the spell as a counterspell and automatically ruin the other spellcaster’s spell. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.

A spellcaster can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, but it doesn’t always work.

Readying a Weapon against a Charge

You can ready certain piercing weapons, setting them to receive charges. A readied weapon of this type deals double damage if you score a hit with it against a charging character.

As opposed to the d20 Modern SRD -

Ready

The ready action lets a character prepare to take an action later, to interrupt another character. Essentially, the character splits his or her action, taking the move action on the character's initiative count and the attack action at a later point. On the character's turn, he or she prepares to take an action later, if a specific trigger is met. Then, later in the round, if the readied action is triggered, the character takes it, acting before the triggering action.

Readying does not provoke an attack of opportunity. (The character's move action, and the attack action he or she readies, may both provoke attacks of opportunity normally.)
Readying an Action

A character can ready an attack action or a move action. To do so, the character specifies the action he or she will take and the conditions under which the character will take it. Then, any time before the character's next action, the character may take the readied attack action in response to those conditions. The readied action occurs just before the event that triggers it. If the trigger is part of another character's actions, the readied action interrupts the other character. The other character continues his or her actions once the readied action is completed.

The character's initiative count changes. For the rest of the encounter, it is the count on which the character took the readied action, and the character acts immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered the readied action.

A character can take a 5-foot step as part of his or her readied action, but only if the character didn't otherwise move any distance during the round.

If the character comes to his or her next action and has not yet performed the readied action, the character doesn't get to take the readied action (though the character can ready the same action again). If the character takes his or her readied action in the next round, before his or her regular turn comes up, the character's initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and he or she does not get your regular action that round.

They're the same thing, different wording. The Modern one specifically says that you get your move action, but you'll notice that the D&D Ready is a "Standard Action" that allows you to ready a "Standard Action" ... if it's a standard action, by definition you still get a Move Action ... and note that you can take a 5' Step as part of your readied action, but only if you haven't already moved ... so, for instance, you could spend your Move Action on controlling Flaming Sphere, then ready an action to cast a spell on the defensive at any badguys that close and take a 5' step away from them.

The way I read it, the badguy would therefore close to melee, stop, you would cast a spell in their teeth, then neatly take a step back and smile, they would get their standard action, but having already moved that round be unable to follow and complete their attack. Which is mean as heck, but involves a pretty gutsy gamble on the mage's part that the badguy won't have reach or will close at all.

--fje

 

[ValhallaGH]

The way I read it, the badguy would therefore close to melee, stop, you would cast a spell in their teeth, then neatly take a step back and smile, they would get their standard action, but having already moved that round be unable to follow and complete their attack. Which is mean as heck, but involves a pretty gutsy gamble on the mage's part that the badguy won't have reach or will close at all.

Or that he won't still have 5 feet left on his move action to finish closing and get his standard attack off on you.
A move action allows 30 feet of movement from an unencumbered human. If the badguy moves 20 feet, the mage casts and backs five, the badguys still has 10 feet left on his move action to chase the mage with and then get his standard action off.