Optional XP system? No tiers?

[hmx]

I don't mind the tier system, but I am still on the fence over the cost to raise a tier. I would prefer to spend the XP on more tangible improvements to my character such as skills, attributes, spell lists, etc. I also think the limit of 1 skill rank at tier 1 might be a bit too restrictive. I like the suggestions Khaalis made of a 2 rank limit for non-combat skills and 1 rank for combat skills.

From there, I would have progression from tier to tier based on how much XP you have spent improving your character. Once you hit some threshold, you move from being seen as an upstart to being a true hero. The logic here is that to have earned the experience to improve your character, you would have most likely had to of done some pretty amazing things (in the eyes of your peers). As it stands, I see the XP cost to move from one tier to the next as a sinkhole as the only tangible benefit – as far as I can tell – is moving to a higher die. This might make task easier to achieve and would allow you to improve your skills to higher ranks, but it is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[LucasC]

I also think the limit of 1 skill rank at tier 1 might be a bit too restrictive. I like the suggestions Khaalis made of a 2 rank limit for non-combat skills and 1 rank for combat skills.

I agree

From there, I would have progression from tier to tier based on how much XP you have spent improving your character.

That is how it is setup right now.

Pg. 73 of the N.E.W. play test doc -

1. A starting character uses d6s in his dice pools. However, experienced characters use larger dice. Acharacter progresses through several tiers based on how many experience points he or she has spent.
   

 

[hmx]

That is how it is setup right now.

Pg. 73 of the N.E.W. play test doc -

2. A starting character uses d6s in his dice pools. However, experienced characters use larger dice. Acharacter progresses through several tiers based on how many experience points he or she has spent.

Thanks for pointing that out, LucasC. I should have read the text more carefully, but the table on page 59 of the O.L.D. text makes it seem as one needs to spend XP to gain each tier. At least, that is how my group took it when we were looking over the documents as we built characters for testing. With that in mind, then I think the XP cost for things might be a bit high or the cost for each tier too low.

 

[Khaalis]

Even though LucasC pointed out that the Tier change is automatic after spending X amount of XP on upgrades, it still doesn't really alleviate my issue with the costs involved. As I pointed at, Tier 2 comes after spending 2K XP. As it stands, for 2K XP I can...

1) Learn 4 new skills (+1 die to 4 specific situations), OR
2) Increase 1 Attribute from 3 to 4, OR
3) Change my Character Trait once and Learn 3 new skills, OR
4) Increase 2 Tradition Levels, OR
5) Increase 1 Tradition Level and Learn 2 new skills, OR
6) Increase 1 Tradition Level and Learn 1 new skills and change Character Trait once

As an example, lets look at Traditions. Say I want to focus on Raising my Traditions Levels. The average Tradition has 5 Levels and most characters will start with 4 Level-1 Traditions.
* Tier 1 to 2 = +2 Tradition Levels
* Tier 2 to 3 = +2 Tradition Levels
* Tier 3 to 4 = +4 Tradition Levels

So, staying within the range I believe most players want to play in (few want to play at Tier 4 Iconic or in "that other game's" terms "EPIC" level), that means you would max out at 8 Tradition levels, which basically means only capping 2 Traditions for a campaign.

When combined with seeing from actual playtest a group is getting around 40XP per session at Tier 1, lets call it 50 for easier math. For Tier 2, lets be really generous and assume 100XP per session and at Tier 3 again very generous and say 150XP/session.

* By Tier 2 (at 50XP/session) = 40 sessions to get +2 Tradition levels to spread over 4 Traditions
- Thus (2 / 2 / 1 / 1)

* By Tier 3 (at 100XP/session) = 40 sessions to get +2 Tradition levels to spread over 4 Traditions
- Thus (3 / 3 / 1 / 1) OR (3 / 2 / 2 / 1)

* By Tier 4 (at 150XP/session) = 27 sessions to get +4 Tradition levels to spread over 4 Traditions
- Thus (5 / 5 / 1 / 1) OR (5 / 4 / 2 / 1) OR (5 / 3 / 2 / 2) OR (4 / 4 / 2 / 2)

This just seems incredibly limiting to me and leaves very level room for other advancement spending.

CLARIFICATION QUESTION: I can't find anything that states this, so when you take a Tradition a second time do you get:
1) Just the Grade II ability?
2) Or do you gain everything: Age, Attributes, 1 Skill, and Grade II ability?


Now, if it were me (and I know its not "my game", but if it were me... I would say that gaining a Tradition again (at the cost of 1000XP is worth getting the Attribute Adjustments, the new Skill and the Grade ability. Age only makes sense if it was a Group Downtime advancement for the same amount of time for all characters).

 

[Khaalis]

PS, to the OP or Morrus (Admin) the Thread Marker for this should be changed to OLD/NEW rather than NEW.